360 Suzy Buttress - The Casual Birder's Evolution: From Passion to Global Community

Harry Duran [00:00:00]: So, Susie Butress, welcome back. Round two and podcast junkies, long overdue. Look up the exact. But it's four or five years maybe since we chatted. Welcome back.

Suzy Buttress [00:00:11]: Oh, thank you so much for inviting me back on. I mean, it's just wonderful to speak to you and see you again.

Harry Duran [00:00:15]: Likewise. What I love to say about this format and what I've built here with the show is it really, it's a bit selfish because it allows me to carve time out to reconnect or connect with people in the podcasting space or people that have been on the show before. And it's almost like slow down and just get into, you know, a deeper conversation, what's happening in your world, what's on your mind. And, you know, as much as we try to have like a social chat or a dm, you know, life takes over. And unless we have that focused time where it's just you and I speaking, and I've mentioned this before also, like, I'll go to conferences and I'll see a friend and I'll see a podcasting friend. I'm like, oh, we got to catch up. And you try to have a hallway conversation, but it just, it doesn't work. And so I always treasure and look forward to these conversations because it's a nice way to have a meaningful conversation, which is it's harder and harder to have those nowadays.

Suzy Buttress [00:01:08]: Absolutely.

Harry Duran [00:01:09]: Bring us up to speed because obviously you've had success with your show and obviously you're still continuing with it. So what's been happening on the casual birder side? I just want to get a catch up for you and then we'll dive into what else is happening in your world.

Suzy Buttress [00:01:22]: So I still have the show and it's still my passion. I move around about what kind of episodes I'm going to release, and over the last year I've struggled to be consistent. So I'm always trying to work back towards being consistent with my episodes. I have so much material to put out, and it's just taking the time to get it organized and make sure that I'm putting out something of value to people. What we have done this year, which has been perhaps detrimental to the show, is we've actually gone out birding ever such a lot. So there I am with a show about birds. But my only time really for creating the episodes is maybe a day during the week, and then the weekends and the weekends we keep going out to see new birds or to have birding experiences. And so it leaves me very little time to do the show. So I've been recording and building up lots of experiences and lots of information for the show and then not releasing it. So at the moment, I'm feeling a bit of a fraud about being a podcaster because I have my episode, I have my backlog of episodes. I have so much that I want to share, and I'm just not sharing it. So that's a tricky situation to be in at the moment. What I do have is a monthly virtual bird club for listeners of the show.

Harry Duran [00:02:48]: Okay.

Suzy Buttress [00:02:48]: And that has been really, really well. So we started that, I think it was a year ago now, and it built up. We've consistently got around 8 to 12 people that join in each month, and it's usually the same people, so. And they're about around the world. So I've got people from Australia that join Germany, France in the uk, America and Canada. So each month we all get together and talk about, you know, what birds we've seen, what's exciting us, what's bringing us joy. And then sometimes I have a guest on to talk about a particular topic, and that's going really well. And sometimes I forget that I have an audience out there that isn't just the bird club, because I'm seeing every month, and we're, you know, exchanging our views and our sightings. And I've actually been lucky enough to go out birding with some of them as well. And so I have to sort of remember that there's a whole load of people out there that listen to the show and aren't part of the bird club. So, you know, they're waiting for new episodes to come out. But I absolutely still love the show. I still love podcasting, and I love the connections that I'm making through the show with both other wildlife podcasters in the UK and with people around the world that are into podcasts, but not necessarily nature or birding podcast. So that's big pluses.

Harry Duran [00:04:12]: So let's provide some context because obviously there's people that are going to be hearing you for the first time, seeing you for the first time here, because they're just being introduced to you. So talk a little bit about the origin story and I'll obviously have links to our longer chat about how you got started. But, you know, when you meet people and you talk about the podcast, you know, I'm sure you maybe you have it down to maybe an elevator pitch at this point. But talk about, like, when you started the show, why you started it, and what the original intent was for it. When you kicked it off.

Suzy Buttress [00:04:41]: So I'd been a fan of listening to podcasts for a very long time.

Harry Duran [00:04:46]: Yeah.

Suzy Buttress [00:04:46]: And I always thought podcasts were produced by people who were famous or in the media. Somehow I didn't know that regular people could produce a podcast. And I support a podcast company and very much love the podcast that this company produces. It's maximum fun and they have a whole load of comedy and cultural podcasts. And I took over creating a fan space in London for maximum fun listeners. And so I was meeting lots and lots of people, both fans of the show, of various shows, have about 30 shows now, you know, a lot of shows, something for everyone, do go and listen. But what I found out was some of those people had their own podcasts. And I was really surprised at that. And I listened to their shows, all different types. Some had audio fiction, some had opinion shows, some had interview shows. And I was really surprised at the quality of the conversations, the quality of the things that I was hearing. And it made me think, you know what? I absolutely love birds. I love being out in nature. One of my biggest joys is sharing what I find and encouraging others to go out and take, you know, have awareness in nature. And the more I thought about it and the more I found out about podcasting, the more I thought, I think I'm going to have my own podcast. And, you know, I'm an older woman and all the people I was talking to were quite, you know, in their early 20s, maybe early 30s. So I was, you know, quite a bit ahead of them in age. And it did seem like a bit of a wacky out there thing to want to do. And I remember talking to my husband, I probably said this on the last episode because it's just one of those key moments in our family that I was talking to him and being so enthusiastic about podcasting and what you could do and what you could talk about. And he just said to me, but you're not going to have a show, are you? Just because, you know, it wasn't because he was trying to put me down or anything. It's because we're usually quite private people. And, you know, having a podcast would mean it would be public and out there. And I said, oh, no, not me. And the minute those words were out of my mouth, I thought, why not?

Harry Duran [00:06:59]: Why not?

Suzy Buttress [00:07:00]: Why can't I do that? And, well, the rest, as I say, is history. I think it's about five months later I put my first episode out and haven't looked back since. I started off by Just doing episodes that explained different bird species. And I very much said. I mean, the reason I chose my name, the casual birder, is because I wanted to. Well, to be honest, I felt a little bit intimidated by the fact that I wasn't an ornithologist. You know, I wasn't a scientist. I wasn't doing research. I was just someone who really loved being out in nature. Really, really loved birds. So I wanted to sort of set the tone straight away. Look, I'm not an expert. I'm not going to know all the answers, but come along with me as I discover things about birds, as I go to places and record the sounds and tell you what I'm seeing. And so that's how a lot of the episodes were to begin with. And then obviously I started interviewing people about their. Really interviewing either scientists or media people that already had a platform and were birders. And so I was bringing their stories in. And also from an early point, once I started getting listeners bringing their stories out on the show as well. So it's. It wasn't just all about Susie. You know, it's not the Susie show, but I kind of facilitate other people to tell their stories. And yes, I tell my stories too. So it's just progressed from there. Sometimes I'm through phases where I'm just doing interviews, but in the background, I'm still building up all these stories of birds I'm seeing and experiences that I'm having. And I've been lucky enough to travel to look for birds. And so I've got, you know, episodes I absolutely want to release that might be a little bit old now, but it doesn't matter because those birds still exist. And how I felt at the time, I recorded at the time. So it will still feel current. Yeah, I'm so excited to sort of get those episodes out as well. You even said I'd have an elevator pitch ready for. And you can tell my elevator pitch. You'd need to be traveling a very long way up the building for me to talk about my show.

Harry Duran [00:09:09]: That's an Empire State Building elevator pitch twice over. You even made it to the States, do some bird watching.

Suzy Buttress [00:09:16]: I've been really lucky. So I was able to go to Los Angeles. And twice I did that for going. The primary reason was to go to a sort of conference, not conferences or. I don't know what you'd call it. It's been like summer camp for the people that supported Maximum Fun. So it was fans of Maximum Fun. And we had a place up at Lake Arrowhead and it was just a chance to sort of see some live shows, meet some of the hosts of the shows that I loved, and meet the other fans. And honestly, the experiences were just amazing. I was able to go two years running, but the first year I went, I was able to meet a very nice person called Harry Duran, who had invited me on his show previously.

Harry Duran [00:09:58]: Yeah.

Suzy Buttress [00:09:58]: And I honestly, I can't thank you enough for inviting me on, because when I was at the beginning of having the podcast, you know, I did feel a bit intimidated. I was putting myself out there. I had no idea whether people would like the show or not. And I was very much in awe of those people that had shows for a long time. And when you asked me to be on the podcast Junkies the first time, it kind of gave me some legitimacy in myself. You know, it probably didn't matter to anyone else, but for me, I thought, wow, I have been invited on someone else's show, and, you know, I loved listening to your show as well, and listening to all your, you know, the whole variety of people that you have on and the stories that you cover. And so I just thought, hey, I wonder if you'd be up for meeting. And you were. And it was like, oh, my gosh, I've met him in person. But that was such a lovely day when you came over. And I've still got photographs.

Harry Duran [00:10:49]: We put it on Social, and our friend Eric Cheer, Lance Anderson, an OG podcaster. It was a beautiful day, and we got to do a little bit of bird watching. You gave us some tips, so it was just fun, because I think when you do something like this and something that you're passionate about, the beauty is in, like, translating it to, like, the real world and real life. And, you know, we don't. Who knew, like, what we were in for, you know, a couple years later. But, you know, this idea and this ability to meet people in person, we sort of took it for granted for, I think, a while. And after Covid, you know, we realized how much we were missing that. But I think it's always great. And that's why I love going to the conferences to hug past guests and to say hi. But. But I think the fact that you were there, it just establishes that connection even more. And so I'm curious, like you mentioned, it was a valuable moment for you to talk about the show, because I think that's what's helpful. And I always look for people that are doing interesting things in podcasting because it's such a wide range and something you said earlier, I thought struck me is, you know, you wanted to differentiate yourself from like the ornithologists and the professional bird watchers. And I think people that are starting podcast podcasting, you know, they think too much about portraying themselves as the subject matter expert. And I had this experience with the vertical farming podcast because when I started in 2020, people were asking me like, do you know anything about vertical farming? I was like, well, I'm interested in the topic, but I know how to interview. And I know. And I'm going to ask high profile people, like the CEOs and founders of these companies, and then we'll sort of like, I'll take my listener on the journey with me. And I sense that's sort of the modus operandi for what you were doing. Just you had a passion, you obviously still have a passion for it. And I just love the fact that you continue to find topics to talk about, birds to talk about. You know, you would think it's something where you would quickly exhaust your subject matter, but, you know, not at all.

Suzy Buttress [00:12:39]: Probably the same for you. You know, you're always learning, you're always finding out new things and you may even be going deeper into a topic that you've already spoken about because your experiences have changed or they've got deeper.

Harry Duran [00:12:53]: And so how do you think about where you are? Because I looked it up. That interview was published in March of 2018, which seems like eons ago. So if you think about Suzy, the podcast host in March of 2018, and Susie, the podcast host in December, as we're recording this of 2024, how have you grown and how have you evolved since then?

Suzy Buttress [00:13:15]: I think I've gained a lot of confidence. I absolutely, I'll talk to anyone when I'm out birding and, you know, try to encourage them. And, you know, if the podcast comes up, you know, because I'm wearing a hat with the, you know, casual bird or on it, so, you know, I'm going to be advertising it. So I'm very comfortable talking about the show. I still prepare my episodes. When I started, I scripted every episode. I scripted it in a way that is the way I speak. So it wasn't stilted. It was still going to be the way I speak. But one of the things that I learned early on from Jesse Thorne, who is the Max Fun Head, was if you are going to script it in short sentences and absolutely do it in the voice you have, because if you try to be like Radio 4 or, you know, some official broadcaster, you're going to trip over your words, you're going to sound unnatural. And then when people meet, in fact, actually, that. That does bring me on something, but try to keep my thought. So rather than doing it in a very officious sort of way, I think you connect with people more if they can hear you. One of the things that really surprised me about podcasting this is the thing that I was going to come on to, is I'm in person. I'm quite. Well, it depends what my mood is. But most of the time, I'm quite bubbly, energetic, and enthusiastic. But when I was on my own doing my solo episodes from a script, I would have, you know, friendliness in my voice and smiles in my voice, but my voice, my pace of speaking slows down. And I often thought, listening back to my show, you know, I sound very measured and very kind of calm. And I often thought people might get quite disappointed if they ever met me in person, because, you know, on the show, I'm calm and everything. And then you meet me in person, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I've got to tell you about this and that, and, oh, this is fantastic. And so I'm trying to inject a little bit more of that in into my episodes that, you know. But I think it's the fact that when I speak to people, I'm worried about losing their attention. This is me psychoanalyzing myself. I think I'm worried they're going to get bored with what I'm saying, so I try to quickly say everything so that I don't lose them. But when I'm just. It's just me and a mic doing my episode, I don't think about that because I think, well, you know, if they are bored, they'll turn it off. But they can't turn me off in person without turning away and walking away. So I think actually the reason I'm much slower in my delivery through my podcast is because I can't see their reactions. And it's interesting. When I've done any zoom interviews, my pacing is much more different. You know, like today I'm sort of, you know, energetic and enthusiastic, and I am, anyway. But if you weren't there and I was just talking into the mic, I. I think everything would slow right down. And I don't know if there's a right or wrong to it. It's just a different mood or a different feeling that's given. You know, I'm still me, but I come across differently depending on what kind of episode it is.

Harry Duran [00:16:28]: Yeah, that makes sense. And I think what's important is also as you sort of get your sea legs under you with podcasting. You know, as of this recording, we're probably. This is, I think, episode 360 and change or something like that. So I think what's interesting is I become more comfortable in my own skin with these shows, and I realize that I'm just engaged with my guests, and that's the most important thing. Always conscious, obviously, that we have a listener, a singular listener, viewer at this time who's participating in this conversation with us. And so we're always. It feels like, for me, that's like keeping the energy moving of the conversation, which I always love, and I think, sense that there's. You have more confidence in yourself as a podcaster because you put in the repetitions. And I think, you know, I just recently ran a workshop, and I was reminding new podcasters that, you know, your 10th is going to sound better than your first, and your fiftieth is going to sound better than your tenth, and your hundredth is going to sound better than your 50th, but you don't know that when you're starting. And I think to your point, you get worried about, like, what people will say, you know, do you feel like, that sense of confidence and that, you know, your subject matter, you have an audience, you have listeners that are commenting that tell you that they love the show. And that has to be affirming for you over the years as you've grown your audience.

Suzy Buttress [00:17:40]: Oh, it really is. I mean, just recently, I got an email from a listener. Well, it's actually someone who is a listener, but also a member of my bird club. And, you know, they just said how much the show means to them and how much the bird club means to them. You know, that I've created this space that they feel able to come along and they're not worried about sharing what they've seen or, you know, they just feel very comfortable with me. And honestly, that is one of the best compliments anyone could make to me that I help them feel comfortable and that. That they are in a space where, you know, they can share their stories and not feel that they're going to be belittled or, you know, because some of the, you know, we're not all experts. And the people that listen to the show range from people who are complete beginners. Maybe they don't even really care about birds very much, but they've come across the show and start listening, and I've actually got Listeners who are actually really expert birders, which always surprises me because I don't know how I've attracted them to the show. Obviously them.

Harry Duran [00:18:40]: Or maybe just ask them, like, I mean, it's always curious. Yeah. I always feel like we. We're talking in a vacuum sometimes. And so any sort of engagement we get or feedback from listeners or viewers, it's like. Because we just want to know, like, what do you like about.

Suzy Buttress [00:18:55]: Yeah, no, I did try an audience questionnaire about two years ago to find out what people liked. I got a reasonable number of responses. I think I got about 35 responses, which doesn' sound very much. But actually, you know, that was quite a lot because especially as I had quite a range of wants out of those. So actually I was, oh, it's not like everyone says, please do this instead, because I would really like it. You know, some people like this bit and some people like that bit. So actually what I was doing was scratching that itch for them on that particular day, you know. But, yeah, no, when I get emails out of the blue or sometimes, and it happens a little bit more frequently now, I'll meet someone and they already know who I am. I don't have to tell them. I met someone in the summer who was visiting the UK from America, and I was actually out with my. One of my listeners, Mary Lee, who was visiting from Canada, and I took her to a reserve in London. And she's lovely and she's so enthusiastic about the show. And as soon as we walked in, she was like, oh, this is the casual birder. You know, she's. And she was like, really bigging me up. Okay, thank you. Anyway, so there's someone who is a regular birder at that place, and he found out I was there through the visitor center because that's where Mary Lee had, you know, really explained that I was there. And he had a friend visiting from America, so he brought him up and we made introductions. And then this guy said, oh, no, I already listened to your show. And I'm like, how amazing. You know, because there are a lot of bird shows out there. It's not like there's only three. And so it's not surprising they've heard of me.

Harry Duran [00:20:30]: Yeah.

Suzy Buttress [00:20:30]: So when you come across people that already know who you are, you know, that's quite nice.

Harry Duran [00:20:37]: It is nice. Yeah. And it happens over time. And I think it's a function of people that love the show so much, sharing it and what I've heard and as I've changed over the years in terms of like, my call to action, something that I've been testing more is to say, if you're enjoying the show, share it with one person you think would get value from this. And really, it's just a small ask, but I think we just underestimate the power of people's like, it's almost like the best recommendation you can get is when someone recommends a show because they're passionate about it, they've listened to it, so they've almost pre vetted the show for you. And so I've been really, really thinking about that and I think that's probably some of the effect that you're experiencing where, you know, people love the show and they personally recommend it to.

Suzy Buttress [00:21:19]: And you know, we all have those times where we said, you know, if you like the show, rate and review us on, you know, wherever.

Harry Duran [00:21:25]: But.

Suzy Buttress [00:21:25]: But there are so many listening platforms now that if people do, you know, it just ends up being scattered throughout. And it's lovely to see those reviews when they happen. But you're right, there's much more value in asking someone to just share the show with someone that you think will like it. And it still astounds me now how many people don't really know about podcasts now. You know, there was a podcast explosion during COVID and you know, and continuing on, but there's lots and lots of people that don't listen to podcasts. And I still come across people who, you know, aren't really sure what a podcast is. And I'm more than happy to explain not just it because, you know, hey, listen to my show, but because there's so many topics out there, so many amazing, fantastic shows that it feels like it's such a shame to miss out on that, to have a whole area of enjoyment that you could be getting just because you don't really understand what a podcast is. So I'm still very much an advocate of, you know, sharing what podcasting is, how we. And you know, it's so easy now to listen to shows. You don't have to, you know, somehow download an episode onto some little device that you used to, you know, you can freely get it on YouTube, Spotify, most people have got phones that will listen to podcasts or share play podcasts. So, you know, I'm still very much aware that even now, seven years on from when I started the show, there are masses of people out there that don't yet know about my show and don't yet know about podcasting. So, you know, there's still a massive audience to reach out there.

Harry Duran [00:22:55]: I know we live in a bubble sometimes and I think we think that everyone knows about podcasting or obviously if you go to a podcast conference, everyone is just inundated. But when we get out of our bubble and we realize, you know, to your point, podcasting or even people that are into birding, like, they just have not discovered it. How has your production workflow changed? Because since 2018, YouTube has just come unseen big time. Spotify is making a serious push to even compete with YouTube because now they're letting you upload video directly there. Now they just added the ability to upload clips directly to YouTube to Spotify, which is a direct competition to YouTube shorts. So they're really like, interesting, like they want to keep people on the platform. And I'm curious how the addition of these, you know, the ability to remote record video is getting easy and easier with tools like descript rooms like we're using today. So obviously it's shiny object syndrome sometimes as well. But how do you think about changes that are important for you as a podcaster?

Suzy Buttress [00:23:56]: Well, I've only done a few video interviews. I use Zoom mainly, although I have also got another platform that I'm just about to start using. And I've only actually recorded a couple of interviews that I've put out on my YouTube channel with video. The rest are all still audio. It's something I want to move into that is an area where I still have to improve my confidence. I don't really enjoy seeing myself on film. But the good thing is when you interview someone, as when you're talking, as it. When it's an audio interview, you put them front and center. So actually I don't need to be in there a lot. You know, I will cut the show so that it's mainly them talking and I might pop in with a, you know, a reaction or a question, because I think, you know, you can hear my question without necessarily having to see me. But one of the things I really want to do, because it is so simple now to be able to reach people that you wouldn't necessarily have been able to reach previously in terms of having them as guests on the show. So when I first started, which, you know, all those years ago, I feel like a little old lady talking about it. But, you know, I actually went out and traveled to people to interview them and the technology has come on so much now that I don't actually have to meet them in person. And it gives me access to a wider range of people to interview to have on My show, absolutely. Back to your point earlier that, you know, you do want that human connection. So I don't want to miss out totally on. On meeting people. But it, you know, with geography and with people's time, being able to hop on an hour's call from the comfort of their own home is obviously a lot simpler than trying to organize, well, what day might you be available? And I'll travel up to wherever to try and meet you. So it makes it far simpler. But because I'm doing that, I really ought to produce because I watch podcast interviews on YouTube. And so, you know, as a podcast listener and enjoyer, like seeing the people that are speaking, I mean, I love having them in my head because, you know, I can get on with tasks all around the house and I've got them in my head. So that's one of my main reasons for liking podcasts. But there's an added layer of enjoyment to seeing them and talk about, you know, what they want. You know, it's that whole thing about seeing the passion come through their eyes during 2025 that is something that I'm really going to be concentrating on, you know, bringing the audience that different thing. They can still listen to the audio, but for those people that prefer to see video, that will be there. And one of the things that I've been doing over the last seven years, because since I've had the show, I've become even more of a passionate birder, is taking lots of videos of different species, audio, obviously, but I'm trying to get better at videoing my wanderings around. So when I visit reserves or when I see new birds, trying to get video of them so that I could then talk about them and present that as part of a show. So whether that's talking with someone else and then intercutting with video of particular birds, but that whole production of an actual, I don't know, it's like a. Not so much a documentary, but it's like a bit more of an immersive experience. You know, it's like, here we are chatting, by the way, you know, this particular bird, this is, you know, what it looks like, this is how it behaves. Now let's talk a little bit about our experience of seeing those birds. And I just think it will add an extra dimension to the two face thing, you know, two people, what is it? Two heads together. The other thing that I'd really love to do, and I keep pushing for it and I don't quite manage to do it, is to do some more round Tables with other nature podcasters. I mean, I would love to do it with other podcasters, but I think it's really nice. One of the wonderful things about podcasting, I found, is that people are quite supportive of each other. I think we all understand that there's a lot of audience to go around and. And just because someone listens to one show doesn't mean they're not allowed to listen to another. You know, when we look at TV shows or we stream things, you know, we can watch more than one program at a time. So, you know, during the week, it's not like we can only watch one thing and not watch anything else. It's the same with podcasts. And I think we all understand that we've got an audience we can share. And if I share my audience with another podcaster, you know, there's going to be people in my audience that have never heard their show before. So, you know, it's bringing it to them, and it will be the same the other way around. You know, their audiences won't all know about me, but they can find out about me. So having, like, round table discussions with other nature podcasters is something I really would like to do. Even if it's like a little summit where we, you know, we all produce, like, individual shows, but also do some round table stuff. That's something I'd really like to do. I'm in a WhatsApp group with all of our UK nature podcasters, and it's so supportive. It's so lovely to, you know, have that. We've all got different shows. We've all got something, you know, we do it differently. Some of them are paid ones, some of them are ones where, you know, they've got resources behind them. And some of them are like me, where, you know, my resource comes from, my husband, who's my biggest sponsor, you know, and I do it all, you know, myself, which I still do now. You know, even though we're all so different, we all support each other and we all share that love of nature and wanting to share it with people. So, yeah, honestly, I would say even though I'm an older woman and, you know, it's all technology and all that sort of stuff, I've always loved all that kind of thing. I feel like starting the podcast was one of the best things I could ever have done. It's really given me emotional contact with people. It's widened my knowledge of what's going on in the world. Just because I'm listening to podcasts and interacting with people. From all different backgrounds. And I think before I was quite limited in the number of people, the people that I was interacting with. And now just, you know, just me in my room with my kit. I can be in touch with so many other people and bring different viewpoints and learn from them and, you know, just share joy. You know, I'm always very much in the positivity side of things. It's too easy to become, you know, I can be quite morose, and I'm always looking even for the tiniest thing, you know, like this morning, I heard a song, thrush singing outside, and it's the first time I've heard one since the spring and, or maybe the early summer. And it was just like, oh, my goodness, they're back. You know, it's starting its territory marking. And it was just a tiny, tiny little thing, but it really lifted my spirits to hear it and think, you know, winter will soon be over and we'll soon be, you know, starting that whole breeding season again when they're all defending their territories and, and, you know, that cyclical aspect of nature. Can't even remember where I started there. It was all fun and joy.

Harry Duran [00:30:59]: So the joy is really important because you have to have the joy, especially for something like podcasting, where if you're committed to it and you're doing it and it's weekly show, you have to find the joy in these conversations or else why are you doing it? And I repeatedly say here when I look at my calendar and I think I've gotten better at who I invite and what I want to partake in in these conversations so that when I look at them, you know, sometimes it may be a busy day and I feel like there's a lot going on, but I know when I connect with my guest, it's a good time and it's high vibe and it's high energy, and that's how all podcasters should feel like.

Suzy Buttress [00:31:34]: You feel like you're doing the wrong thing.

Harry Duran [00:31:36]: You're like, why am I talking to this person when you're doing the wrong thing? And I love this idea of reminding yourself to have joy. And even, you know, I need to, to be better at that because I sort of, how I was raised, you know, I come from a 9 to 5 culture and I grew up in the city. And just being here now in Minnesota, I think I've shared with you with some of the photos. We now have chickens. We have five chickens that we're trying to keep as warm as possible. When it hits your freezing temperature, Here in the Midwest. But even just we've got the bird feeder out and it's positioned outside the window. And my partner does an amazing job of probably spending more than she wants to on seeds and feed. But we're all varieties for all types of birds. But, like, she knows enough that if you have the variety there that you start to see, you know, all the different types of birds. And it's miraculous to think about. Yeah, they make it through winter as well, because I think it was. The chickadee can sustain temperatures up to minus 40 Fahrenheit. Like, it's wild. Because I remember being here in Minnesota, I would see birds when it's like below freezing outside. I'm like, how is that bird surviving? You know, it's just increasing the sense of wonder. And obviously chickens can develop like down feathers underneath their regular feathers, which keeps them warm because we're worried. I'm like, how are they even, like sleeping overnight in the coop in this weather? So it just comes back. And then even the functional nature of the feeder because we have cedar siding on our house and the woodpeckers were attacking for a while, but now we put a suet out and you get like these, you know, the red throated woodpeckers. And I forgot what the name of the bigger ones look like. Woody woodpecker with the red flame.

Suzy Buttress [00:33:08]: Yeah, yeah.

Harry Duran [00:33:10]: Alienated woodpeckers I've never seen sitting here. And they're part. You've never. I'll send you a video. I've got. They were on the deck and they're just magnificent to watch. And as a child, you think of woody woodpecker and you're like, oh, wait, that's the real version. But it's interesting. If you work in tandem with nature, it can be your friend, as opposed to some people who like, hate squirrels or hate birds because they're damaging. And I noticed that there's less of the pecking on the house now that we've put the suet out for the woodpeckers. And so you just have to find a balance because, you know, I'll hang like a fake owl on the side of the office where I'm at. And that keeps the woodpeckers away too. So it's just a reminder, I think came to mind as you were speaking is just like the fact that you're constantly wowed by nature and that never ends as long as you set yourself to receive that joy, to receive that wonder every day.

Suzy Buttress [00:34:01]: One of the things that I've learned over the course of my show, from the contact that I've had with other people, other birders, is that there's more than one way to enjoy birds. And actually there's a very long list of the ways that you can avoid. There's people that do mindful birding, so they will just sit and just appreciate the birds that are around. And they're not running off to find a new bird. They're just in the moment, listening, watching, calming. There are people that just listen to birds, you know, they're bird listeners and, you know, so you don't have to be just one type of birder. We'll all have different types of birding that we do at different times. And, you know, when I'm working, I am always listening for birds and, you know, one that I've not seen for a while, I can hear it outside. I am right there at the window looking out to see, you know, what's come. But, yeah, that really, really opened my eyes a bit because I really just thought, oh, you know, you're either a birder or maybe a twitcher. So this is someone who races off after rarities and will travel vast distances just to be able to tick off a rarity. But. And I think in the uk, we've kind of thought, well, that's just the two types. You know, you've got the old grandpa type who wanders around and tells you about what birds they're out there, and then these ones are spending fortunes and, you know, flying here, there and everywhere. But. And I think it was contact with American birders that made me realize that there's so many more ways to enjoy being out in nature and to be enjoy birding. And that's again, one of the things that I want to bring to the show, you know, to let people know you don't have to fit a carbon, you know, a cutout version of what a birder is. Birding is whatever it is you're doing and however you enjoy the birds, that's a valid way to be a birder, you know.

Harry Duran [00:35:47]: Yeah.

Suzy Buttress [00:35:47]: And sometimes just sit and listen and watch what's around and, you know, if there's a rarity that sounds like it's in good condition and isn't going to be stressed by loads of people going to see it. I might travel not long distances. We set ourselves a limit on how far we travel. But, you know, I have gone to see birds that are. We had a northern waterthrush in one of the counties at the beginning of the year near us well, it wasn't actually near us. It's over the other side of the country. But it's where my parents lived, and we just happened to be on a visit to my parents, so it was close to where they live, so that was fair. I was allowed to do that sort of twitch. But, yeah, I mean, I still. We go out all over the county now, and I found out so many more habitats just from this year. We decided we would try to see 200 bird species in the year. It's kind of like a round number. You know, in America you have so many more birds than we do, but 200 is quite a large number for a year's list. And, you know, so that we were going out to different habitats and we've found so many more lovely places that we just would not have found. And sometimes you're lucky. Sometimes you go to those places and you see lots of different birds. And other times you go. And it's just a country walk because, you know, the birds aren't around for whatever reason. It's the time of year, time of day, but, you know, you're out, and that's okay, too. Like, really important. Absolutely. Absolutely. You've gone out. You know, it's so easy just to sit home and just sort of stay in your safe space. But, you know, going out into nature can be your safe space, too.

Harry Duran [00:37:16]: I love that. Talk to me about the bird club, because I think that's interesting for podcasters who want about engagement, community, maybe even monetization. So just bring us up to speed where you're at with what's working for your show.

Suzy Buttress [00:37:31]: So I think that I once again lacked confidence in what that would be. So I didn't monetize it from the beginning, and I think I probably should have done, because now I've got these people regularly coming, and I. I get as much from these bird clubs as they do, and I don't think I can monetize it because what would I do? I'd have to say, okay, you lot are all grandfathered in because you're already here. But then how will I attract new people? Because they know that there's people that are already enjoying it that don't pay or didn't pay or the whole monetization thing. Just at times I think I've got the hang of how this will be, and other times I think I just don't know how to do it at all. So I. One of the things I am going to be doing, and I've spoken to a few of My listeners about this is. So currently I have a Facebook group for listeners of the show. It's a closed group, so you. You have to be a listener to join it.

Harry Duran [00:38:29]: And how many people in the Facebook group?

Suzy Buttress [00:38:31]: I think it's about 300, but obviously you only have about 25 or 30 people that actively. Although for all I know, there could be a lot more reading all the posts. But they don't.

Harry Duran [00:38:43]: Lurkers.

Suzy Buttress [00:38:44]: They don't take part. Exactly. Lurkers. Not. You know, I've done my fair share of lurking in Facebook groups myself, getting more and more frustrated by the way Facebook operates. And I find that I can get a notification and it says things like, there was this post 5 days ago, you know, you might want to comment on it. And I actively go into my group and look for new posts and, you know, keep an eye on what's going in there. And I totally miss these posts. And then I find out five days later there was. And I feel awful because I want my people in the group to feel like, you know, I notice them, I notice what they're saying and, you know, there's lots of lovely interaction between people, but I'd hate for them to think I'm ignoring them. I'm not. It's not showing it. And also, the frustrating thing about the way the group operates is it's very hard to have a conversation going on. So, for example, sometimes people will say, you know, who's got a tip about Kit? Or something like that. And, you know, there'll be an active thread for, you know, a couple of days. And then, of course, it drifts down as more things get posted and then you can't find it again. And not everyone is heavy enough to be able to do a search to find a keyword or whatever. So we're going to be moving to. I'll keep the Facebook group there because there are people that are very comfortable on Facebook and I wouldn't want to take away the show from them like that, the community from them. But I'm going to be moving to a platform which is more like sort of. You can have threads or areas and then threads circle. I think you circle.

Harry Duran [00:40:10]: I had a feeling you were going to say circle. I'm in several circle groups and it seems to be picking up because it's very. Once you're in one, it's easier to just get in others. And it. You can do threads, you can do different sections, you can have teaching content in there. It's making a lot of traction.

Suzy Buttress [00:40:28]: So, yeah, and I'm in a couple of Circle groups, so I've seen how it works and I think that would work really well for my community. So what I'm planning is we're going to have some founder members from the group, from the listeners who will assist me in buying the first year's license because, you know, all this money I keep paying out on the show, you know, and I'm not getting any in. So I have to, you know, think about that. But then what I think I'll be doing is having a paid membership and it will be so much more valuable than the Facebook group. Yes, people will have to migrate over to. But you know, I've spoken to people in my group and there's an appetite for it. There's definitely an appetite for things like trip reports and being able to, you know, use resources that other people have shared and then go back and find them again. And I just think the organization of the threads makes a lot more sense. So I still have to think about how that monetization work will work. I think over the Christmas period I'll be doing lots of reading of help articles from Circle about how you set these things up and because you know, you want people to have the opportunity to try it before committing. But I'd also like to keep it quite low level cost so that, you know, it's not prohibitive to people. So it's.

Harry Duran [00:41:44]: And I think you can do pricing that's Maybe founders pricing, $5 a month or something, you know, very simple. But as a way to thank the people who have been with you on this journey. But then also, you know, move that up to ten dollars a month for new members or fifteen, whatever people find reasonable. I think the ten dollar price point is probably helpful for people who are, you know, doing this out of a passion. But then you then can provide additional value whether it's like, hey, I'm doing, ask me anything, you know, once a month where it's just for members and yes, and I think people, you know, they have this adage in marketing and sales. They say when people pay, they pay attention. You know, because there's been so many instances of like people gifting you access to a free course or to a paid course and they're like, hey, have my login. And then you didn't pay for it. So you don't really like feel the necessity, the value it. Yeah. So I think, and I do feel we're in an age where this abundance mindset, you know, this idea of currency is current and you have to Give it and you have to exchange it. So you have to welcome it in when it's coming. And you also have to be feeling like you're providing something where it's okay to be compensated for it. And I think you've done the podcast for so long and so many years, and people, the free content is the podcast, right? And they can listen and. But now, like, hey, do you want to go deeper? And I think that'll be interesting to see what happens, because that'll be your call to action now in the podcast, right? Hey, we've got a group now, and this is what's happening in the group and feel, you know, people will get a little bit of FOMO and feel like, oh, maybe I like the podcast. And let's see. You know, there's always the people that want to go deeper, right? And so having that, I think is going to be great.

Suzy Buttress [00:43:14]: Yeah, no, I'm hopeful. That is. I mean, I've been talking about it for a couple of years, but, you know, 2025 is the year of action. So I was talking to some of my club members recently and, you know, they were really showing an appetite for it. So I thought, well, you know, it's not just coming from me trying to drag people into coming to this other platform. There's actually an appetite for it. You know, I think this is the time that's good.

Harry Duran [00:43:36]: Well, if you need some accountability, I'll check in with you in a text chat and see where you're at.

Suzy Buttress [00:43:43]: Scary.

Harry Duran [00:43:44]: Well, I think it's obviously that's why coaches, you know, gym coaches, you know, they push you to do the things that sometimes, you know, you wouldn't do if it was just you. And sometimes people need that motivation. It's something that, you know, it's top of mind for me. I'm always interested in that. And even myself, like, you know, having this show, I really don't monetize this show at all. And I always think about ways to, like, get more engagement. And so it's always interesting to see, hear what people are doing because it inspires me to think differently about what I want to do in 2025. You know, I did make the move to video, so that's been helpful. But there are other things. And so it's always helpful to be in a conversation with other podcasters who are have the same motivations. And I think that's Rising tide lifts all boats. So as we get close to wrapping up on staying true for the context of the show, I'll ask my Two questions again and see if your answers have changed. But the first one is that what's something you've changed your mind about recently?

Suzy Buttress [00:44:33]: Oh, gosh, I'm obviously a stick in the mud and never changed my mind about anything. You know, I think actually it's this idea of there being more types of ways of birding. I know I'm sticking to birding, but yeah, I opened my eyes to. There's a group called Birdability, and they are advocates for people with disabilities being able to get out into various reserves, you know, making sure they're accessible for wheelchairs, providing information and advice to people who, you know, have some sort of challenge that they need to accommodate if they want to go birding. And they. On Facebook, Instagram, they provided this long list of ways you can bird and to see it down in black and white and think about. Actually, yes, we're all different types of people. We all have different challenges. We all have different loves or wants or needs. And all of these ways are valid. And it opened my eyes a bit to, you know, maybe some people enjoy birds by just listening. Maybe some people enjoy birds because by creating art around them, you know, that's their way of. They don't keep lists, they don't tick birds off, but they're inspired by birds and they create art or poetry or write about them. It's just other ways of experiencing birds. And not all of that. They are all still birders because. Because they're all that same source is the birds around us. And of course, there's people who are really passionate about conservation, you know, really go out there and put their, you know, their money where their mouth is kind of thing. They are out there doing the work. And yeah, I think realizing that we don't just use binoculars and scopes and, you know, welly boots, you know, to go out birding. There are other ways to enjoy the birds. So I think that's something I've.

Harry Duran [00:46:26]: That's great. I love that. And what's the most misunderstood thing about you?

Suzy Buttress [00:46:33]: I don't know. Maybe that I'm a know it all because I always have a. An opinion about something. But, you know, I am actually quite. I suppose I'm quite an insecure person. And I try to get over that. I don't think people would think of, you know, someone with insecurity or not being confident when they speak to me or encounter me in every day. You know, I think. Not that I want to be known as someone who's insecure and not confident, but, you know, they are just parts of me.

Harry Duran [00:47:01]: That's important as a distinction because I think I've noticed that as a common thread, that people say that I'm more introverted than you would think by listening to me on the podcast. And I think I'm the same way. And I thought, I think what I thought for a while that I was an extrovert, but I'm a situational extrovert. And I'll go to a podcast conference and two or three days and then I'm just like mentally taxed and I come back and. And now that we lived outside, 30 minutes outside the city, and I realized, like, I. I need to work harder to maintain connections, to go out and do things that are in the real world. And I can't live my whole life, you know, through a screen. And as much as I've been able to connect to, like you said, have conversations, expand my worldview horizon by speaking to people across this planet, which has been wonderful and fascinating, I do have to balance that with some irl, as they say in real life, connections. You know, I think I found that over the years because the dynamic when you're working with, you're engaging with people in real life is different than just like us having this conversation. You need different skill sets and you need to be able to be so much harder to be engaged in real life because there's so many other distractions, you know, and sometimes I. I've had the mistake of the challenge of being a New Yorker moving to the Midwest is I'm focused with my blinders. Like, I don't say hi to people, like, I don't smile, like, you know, it's different because in New York City you do that. You're a weirdo. So I've had to learn as a being here, you know, people are just friendlier here. You have to open up. You have to be genuinely engaged in what people are saying. You have to be okay with like 10 minute goodbyes and just have patience for different cultures and just have an appreciation for, you know, we're all trying to connect on the human level. And I think that's what we need more of. And I think Covid showed how really lonely people are and how disconnected from other human beings people are. So I think, I appreciate that you said that. And I think it's just a reminder that it's something that we all have our own insecurities. You know, we all have the things that we see when we look in the mirror. And I think as long as we recognize them and we're constantly working to improve them. I think that's the ultimate goal.

Suzy Buttress [00:49:07]: Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that.

Harry Duran [00:49:11]: So thank you so much for making the time to come back on. It was so nice to reconnect with you. It's always nice to hear what you're up to and just to see the progress that your show is. So inspiring to know that you can take a topic like birding and just, you know, run with it and make it your own, literally. Like, don't be dependent on what other people's perceptions of what, you know, if you thought of what a show would be, you know, if you thought back when you started the show seven years ago, like, I'm going to start a show and I envision this is what's going to be. I'm sure it's wildly different than what it is now as you experienced it. But if you had waited for like all the perfect storm of things to happen so you could start it, you know, it wouldn't have happened and that wouldn't be the wonderful show that it is today. Opened up all these doors and, you know, all these people that love and support you and the show. So kudos for you for taking that first step, for continuing and just continuing to, you know, develop the show in your own way, with your own personality. And I think that what makes it so special.

Suzy Buttress [00:50:04]: Well, thank you so much, Harry. Thank you.

Harry Duran [00:50:08]: Where's the best place for folks to connect with the show and to learn more about what's happening in your world?

Suzy Buttress [00:50:13]: Well, you can go to my website, casualbirder.com on the front page. It's got the latest episode, which I will say is a few months old at the moment. There are more coming, but there are 130 odd episodes there. So, you know, there's plenty to keep you occupied in the meantime. And there's also links on there. If you are interested in joining the bird club, you'd be very welcome. And you know people who are just finding out about birds, if you want to come along and just be in an environment where other people are talking about them with all range of experiences. So don't feel intimidated. We're very, very welcoming. There's the Facebook group as well. And I'm on Instagram, so I do try to post a little bit more about the birds I'm seeing on Instagram and I try to ask people to think about what birds are giving them joy and let me know. I genuinely love hearing from people what birds they've seen, especially when they're birds in countries? I don't know. But you know, I genuinely love hearing from people and hearing what their bird experiences have been. But yeah, casualbirder.com is the main place to go.

Harry Duran [00:51:14]: Okay, we'll make sure all those links are in the show notes as well. Thanks again for your time, Susie. I really appreciate it.

Suzy Buttress [00:51:18]: No, thanks so much, Harry. It's been lovely speaking with you again.