348 Sophie Bearman - The Making of a “Life in Seven Songs”

Harry Duran 0:00 - 0:06

So, Sophie Bearman, director of special projects at the San Francisco Standard, thank you so much for joining me on podcast Junkies.

Sophie Bearman 0:06 - 0:08

Thanks for having me.

Harry Duran 0:08 - 0:28

One of the, I guess, perks of having a show where you interview other people that are in podcasting space is by default. They typically tend to have great gear. So I sort of lucked out as opposed to others who start a show and they're interviewing, like, random people in, like, their offices or in their cars or outside. And so that's a nice, so it looks like you've got a pretty nice setup where you're at.

Sophie Bearman 0:29 - 0:33

Yeah, the bar is higher for us. You know, I didn't want to come through on a cell phone for this.

Harry Duran 0:33 - 0:40

So we were just chatting that this is your first interview regarding the new project that you're working at. So I'm honored you got to spend some time with us today.

Sophie Bearman 0:41 - 0:49

Oh, yes. Life in seven songs, first interview. I'm just happy to be here to talk about how it all came to be and whatever questions you have.

Harry Duran 0:49 - 0:50

Where's home for you now?

Sophie Bearman 0:51 - 1:08

Home is in San Francisco. I moved to San Francisco, like, in the heart of the pandemic. I think it was October 2020. My husband and I moved here from New York City, which is where we both grew up and pretty much spent our whole lives before that. But we really love the west coast, so we have no plans to leave anytime soon.

Harry Duran 1:09 - 1:24

So talk to me about life in New York. I do miss New York. I'm in Minnesota now, but I grew up in Yonkers. I've lived in New York City, Upper east side, east, lower east side, East Village Brooklyn. So that's where my heart is. And so any sort of, like, connection I can get or just a reminder of, like, the energy from there is always nice.

Sophie Bearman 1:25 - 2:15

Yes. I mean, growing up in New York is amazing. I didn't learn to drive until my twenties, which shocks a lot of people, but for a New Yorker, that's like par for the course. But, you know, it was cool, just especially once your high school age. I remember going to Coney island with friends or going to Soho or Chinatown or Queens to try out dim sum. You could just do whatever. And it was very freeing in that sense. A lot of museums, actually a lot more parks than people realize, I think. So it was a good place to grow up. And then later I went away for college, not too far, just went to Boston, and then came back to New York for most of my early career. And it was fun to be in my twenties there as well. It's just the winter, I just don't love the cold. So that's why we're really liking California.

Harry Duran 2:15 - 2:28

Yeah, I've taken that to the next level. Moving to Minnesota, I guess, because I used to think winters in New York were cold. And then I came here and I was like, oh, that's like next level cold. Like lake freezing. People drive on lakes here, too, which is kind of bonkers.

Sophie Bearman 2:28 - 2:29

Oh, my gosh.

Harry Duran 2:30 - 2:37

So did you always know you wanted to get into journalism? I know you studied it as well. And was that always a passion as far back as you can remember?

Sophie Bearman 2:37 - 3:44

I wouldn't say so. I think my passion that I sort of discovered in college was actually documentary filmmaking. And at the time, I had pretty grand ambitions of making, you know, feature films or, I think my thesis in college was a 30 minutes film, but I got lucky. I mean, it all worked out. I also did write for the college paper, the Harvard Crimson. So I did do journalism. And when I went to look for a job, I sort of realized it was a little bit harder to fund going off around the world to make documentaries, necessarily. But there was this digital video thing that was up and coming. And so my first job out of college was sort of combining journalism and video production. And I went to thestreet.com, comma, which is Jim Cramer's financial news company, located right on Wall street, and started making videos at the stock exchange and with Kramer and business videos, basically. And then from there, went to CNBC. So it sort of learned on the job, developed the taste for it very much once I got my foot in the door, but have stuck with it ever since.

Harry Duran 3:45 - 3:56

Talk to me a little bit about what video production was like back in 2013 compared to, like, how different it is now with all the tools we have available. It seems like it's a lot easier now. And I'm wondering what it was like when you got started.

Sophie Bearman 3:58 - 5:16

Yeah, it was, you know, it wasn't too bad, I guess. It's definitely gotten better. You know, the cameras that we started off with were, like, Panasonic's really clunky. I remember I had, like, abs and muscles because I was carrying, like, big cameras into the stock exchange, and it just kind of more of the tv vibe. But everyone was really interested in digital, and it was this just amazing time for it where all the advertisers wanted to be there and, you know, you're putting something on Facebook and within hours, seeing hundreds of thousands of views. Now, we sort of know that was somewhat inflated, and eventually there was a bit of a, you know, not a bit. A big downfall and a reckoning. But at the time at CNBC, tv anchors wanted to do digital projects. So we just got really lucky, and we were able to kick off a lot of projects. And then by that time, we were using nice, like canon, you know, c 300 cameras. And things were starting to get pretty. Pretty neat looking and pretty fancy. So it was a good time to be in video and doing storytelling. And then eventually, I think I got a little bit tired of business news specifically, just always, you know, being asked, well, what's the money angle? Eventually, you know, the world's happening around me, politics and whatnot. And I was like, I might be tired of this question, but for a long while, it was a lot of fun.

Harry Duran 5:16 - 5:19

Do you still stay connected to the documentary filmmaking world?

Sophie Bearman 5:20 - 5:27

I try. I definitely try to. I love watching documentaries, but I don't do too much of it anymore.

Harry Duran 5:27 - 5:29

Do you have a recent favorite you've seen?

Sophie Bearman 5:30 - 5:46

Oh, great question. You know, it's so funny. I feel like these days I'm watching so many series on Netflix, for better or for worse. Yes. Sometimes the changes, they're not all good. I'll get back to you on that one. I have to keep thinking about it.

Harry Duran 5:46 - 5:49

So when did podcasting come on your radar?

Sophie Bearman 5:49 - 7:33

So podcasting. Let's see. So eventually I left CNBC. I'd been there for a number of years, had a lot of fun, worked on a lot of cool projects, and then, like I said, sort of wanted to leave business news behind. And I applied to journalism school, actually, and I went to, I got in and then went to Columbia journalism school. They have this master of arts program that's really small, and it's sort of for journalists that are, I would not say mid career, because I'm probably not even mid career now, but, you know, have a career, but maybe want to pivot or want to go deeper. And so I did a program in political journalism. So there were, like ten of us in that class. And you have to do a thesis project similar to college or, you know, any masters program. And it really was the story that I found, which I ended up doing with a colleague of mine, another peer in the program. I can explain why, but it was just so clear that it was audio for a number of reasons. Not video, not written. And that's what we did. We got an audio advisor who is amazing, turned out to be Ellen Horne, who was the executive producer of Radiolab forever. And she's just incredible. And so, you know, one great thing about a master's program like that is, you have great connections off the bat. And she jumped in and loved our story and advised it. And then actually, even after we graduated, helped develop it, an executive produce it, and we were able to sell it to Virginia public media and iHeartRadio and turn it into a show that exists in the world, which is really, really cool. But it was really like, what's the right format for this story? And it felt like audio. Was it? So I hadn't done any audio before that.

Harry Duran

7:33 - 8:22

Okay, so what was that experience like, you know, coming. Because you had done, you have all that video expertise, but there is something about audio, especially if there's zero video component to it. You were talking about theater of the mind. Right. And obviously, you know, people are familiar with serial and how that blew up, and you have to sort of probably work a little bit harder. But also you're giving the license to the listener to kind of think of what they want to envision in their mind what that looks like. And so you're tasked with, you know, the audio editing, the ambient sound, the music, and all these different pieces together. And I'm sure you're learning as you went. And so what was that experience like? And when you. You listen to the final product and you think about all the pieces that went into making it, how do you kind of describe to people who've never had that experience, like, what that's like all the pieces that go together and make a really quality show like that?

Sophie Bearman

8:22 - 9:32

Yeah. And it's so much work. And I have to say, eventually it dragged on to a point where I ended up taking a full time job at the San Francisco standard and taking a little bit of a step back. So I have to give, like, the biggest shout out to my partner, Tessa Kramer, and Ellen Horn, who beyond brought it to the finish line. That being said, there are parts where I felt comfortable, like I'd been out in the field my whole career and using the equipment. I'd used audio recorders before I understood how to interview in various environments. That wasn't so different. I mean, b roll in terms of video and then scene tape is obviously different, but, okay, you're in the car. You're gonna capture the ignition. That kind of stuff made sense to me. The hardest part, and I'm still working on it, was, you know, you get back and tracking and writing narration, and that's the, you know, writing is hard, and it's even a higher bar when people can't see what the place looks like. And, you know, the sound can help describe it, but you have to write to that, too. And so, again, kudos to Tessa. She's a great writer, but that was a learning curve for me in a big way, and still is.

Harry Duran

9:32 - 9:55

It's such an amazing skill set, and I think when done properly, you almost forget that you're not watching anything because your visual, internal visual mind takes over, and you already can kind of see the scene if it's done right. And then obviously, the music helps to set the tone. So I imagine it's something that once you have that skillset, it's probably. It added a lot of value in your new role as well.

Sophie Bearman

9:56 - 10:18

Yeah, I feel. I mean, our show is not easy to make, and it does take a lot of editing, but compared to the show that I helped co create is called admissible shreds of evidence. Compared to that, it is more of a classic interview conversation. We cut a lot, and we do work with music, but we're not working with Nat sound and environmental tape and stuff like that.

Harry Duran

10:18 - 10:21

So you were the standard's first editorial hire, correct?

Sophie Bearman

10:21 - 10:22

I was.

Harry Duran

10:22 - 10:26

It's a relatively new organization, so can you speak a little bit about what they're doing there?

Sophie Bearman

10:27 - 13:04

Yeah, definitely standard. I think that we launched in January 2021, so very new still. And I was freelancing at that point in the middle of the pandemic when I got a LinkedIn message from our CEO, Griffin Gaffney. And it was like, he's such a great personality. You know, he has this charisma that can come through even on LinkedIn. But it was like, huh, what are you building? What is this thing? You know? And I ignored it. I was like, this is really weird. And it was actually my sister who knew that my husband and I had been thinking about the west coast for a long time, and the job was over here in San Francisco. That was like, at least respond, you know, talk to him. So we got on a call, and it was a very fluid thing. Like, he had worked in tech. He wanted to start a media company. He loves San Francisco. This is his home. And he wanted to build a company that covered politics and accountability and also just what to do in the city in a way that he felt like was maybe lacking. And he also loved video and multimedia, but it was a lot of different ideas, and I just kind of took a leap of faith. Looking back, I'm like, it worked out, but it was a big leap. And I took the job, and my family, we moved over to San Francisco and just tried to figure out what this thing was. And since the standard has grown to, I think we're like 50 or 60 people now, and we have an actual newsroom, and we have beats and someone who covers housing and someone who covers homelessness and food. And it's a really incredible place to spend time and learn about the city. Obviously, it holds elected leaders accountable. We do investigations, but we also write about where to find the best sushi and how to appreciate what is an amazing city. As far as the podcast goes, I always knew I wanted to bring that skill to the standard. It was just figuring out the right timing for it. So I spent the first couple years leading our video and photo departments and social, to a large degree, developing our TikTok and Instagram presence. And they were really fun on those platforms. Then I kind of burnt out. Sorry, it's the long answer. I took six months off and hiked the Pacific Crest trail and got to work on this podcast. It felt like it was the right time. We had enough people to run all those other operations, and we knew what it would take to make a good podcast and also how we could use the podcast to broaden our audience. So those were some of the goals for why we did it now.

Harry Duran

13:05 - 13:46

So I was going to. I'm glad you kind of teed that up, because talk about moving to the west coast is like taking this chance and doing something that's sort of like out of the box. And then hiking the Pacific coast trail probably falls into that category as well. But, and I do. I want you to kind of talk to me about that experience. But I'm curious about that inflection point, what was happening for you? Because this happens a lot to, you know, people that listen are indie podcasters who've been podcasting for many years, and obviously a lot of them at some point burn out. They stop their shows, they pause their shows, you know, or they just move on and just decide they want to do something differently. So what was going on for you personally, and how do you make a tough decision like that to take that break, speak up for your health and for yourself, and decide that's the best move for you?

Sophie Bearman

13:47 - 15:10

Yeah, I just think a startup environment is such a blessing and genuinely really fun to be in. I wouldn't trade it. And exhausting. You're always growing and pivoting, and that's great. The burnout actually started a little later when we were more developed, and it became like every day the news cycle continues and you're running a photo department and have a big team. And just partially the Pacific Crest trail is an experience that I long dreamed about and my husband had, too. And so a little bit of it was like a calculation of, okay, we have other goals in life. We maybe want to start a family. Is now the time? Oh, crap, now's the time. And Griffin, our CEO, to his credit when I told him, was like, take six months, you know, unpaid, but like, go do the thing. And I didn't know if I'd have to leave the job or how that would shake out. So I got super, super lucky. To just have the best of both worlds. To be able to take the time and know that I could come back and come back in a new role is also really cool. But it felt really good to step away. And it's kind of like a dream because you're like, it's been a year now since we got on trail, and it's like, who is that person? What did I do? How did I walk like 25 miles a day?

Harry Duran

15:10 - 15:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sophie Bearman

15:11 - 15:13

But a good dream.

Harry Duran

15:13 - 15:25

So what was that? We don't have to make this a nature podcast, but I'm just curious, like, what was that experience like for folks who have never done that and what can they expect? And, you know, what would you say is something that you got out of that experience?

Sophie Bearman

15:25 - 16:23

So you're walking from Mexico to Canada. It's 2650 miles. It took us six months of like, solid walking. You're obviously carrying everything you need on your back. Your tent, your sleeping pad, all the food, a water filter. You're drinking filtered water out of rivers and lakes. It's every day. It's literally and figuratively, ups and downs, shedding tears, standing on top of a mountain, just feeling like you own the world. And it's a lot of curveballs and often very miserable. Honestly, I do want to emphasize it is not all fun, but it was great. It was great to do with my husband. It's like people joke that you can go to Ikea and it can end a relationship, but the fact that we made it smelling as bad as we did six months together, I think is a testament to our relationship. So we enjoyed it.

Harry Duran

16:23 - 16:44

Yeah, my partner and I have talked about doing the Camino, so just a similar experience. So, yeah, it's one of those things that hardens you in a good way and just kind of prepares you for the ups and downs, probably of life itself. Right. Because it shows you holds up a mirror to all the things that could possibly happen in life and compressed in that six month window. And I'm sure you're a different person than you were when you started.

Sophie Bearman

16:44 - 16:45

Totally.

Harry Duran

16:45 - 16:51

Yeah. So you come back, you're refreshed, and you've got talk about the genesis of the idea for the podcast.

Sophie Bearman

16:52 - 19:16

Yeah. So we had a couple goals for what the podcast could do for the standard, sort of before we figured out, because there's a lot of podcasts you could make an obvious one might be like a San Francisco news show. Right. Whether that's a daily or a weekly. And we thought about that and may still do that. The line, what we wanted was to sort of push our own comfort zone with a podcast. Ideally seek an audience that's actually wider than the Bay area. So make a show that maybe someone in New York or Chicago listens to, which currently mostly our audience is California. So those were some things we were thinking about. Oh, and the third is ideate and come up with a show that we could actually make and make it good, because podcasts, I think no one people realize, some people don't, how hard they are to make. Right? You know that. And all the guests that come on know that. But we don't have a big team and, you know, it's basically myself and a senior producer, Jasmine Morris, making this show. So those were the things we were thinking about. And what we made is a show called life in seven songs. And what we do is we bring on each episode, we say, like the most fascinating people. We can get ahold of some of the most fascinating people in the world. There's a lot of them, luckily, about folks like San Francisco mayor London breed or global architect Norman Foster. And we interview them about their lives. It's simple in that sense. It's like biographical. We start often with childhood and go from there. The twist is that they, ahead of time, think about and then bring with them seven songs that have sort of shaped them or influenced them or helped them in their becoming of who they are. And what's been so cool about that is we're interviewing people that have told their stories a lot, but we're still able to hear and learn things that are very new that I think they've actually never shared because of the framework of bringing music and the way that music can transport us to a certain time. Like you're twelve in your bedroom or you have a certain memory. So San Francisco Mayor London breed playing, you know, Lizzo and candy girl, and it's just a side of people that you don't hear. And that's what's been super, super cool about it.

Harry Duran

19:16 - 19:26

So my overthinking mind starts thinking about the logistics now. So how do you. How do you land at seven songs? And then how long does it take to produce one episode?

Sophie Bearman

19:26 - 20:24

Oh, my gosh. I hope we get faster. I'm sure we will. Knock on wood. We interview folks, and this is a lot to ask. We talk for between 75 minutes or even up to 90. It's a long interview just because seven songs is a lot to get through. And we're not just talking about the songs. We're also filling in a life story and a journey. But then we edit it down to about 25 to 30 minutes an episode. And so seven was. We tried six. I think we tried eight first. I like how seven songs sounds, but also, when you have an episode of that length of 30 minutes, you end up hearing a song every four or five minutes. And it's just that, like, pick me up, it's just time. And it moves things along really nicely. And you hear only about 15, maybe 20 seconds, depending on the nature of the commentary of the song. But those moments are great. They're golden.

Harry Duran

20:24 - 20:42

And from a production standpoint, you're doing the interview and then you set it up in a way where you take a break and then you listen to the song together with the guest in the room. And obviously, you can probably fix it up and post later, but I'm assuming the good sounding version of it gets edited and posed, but in that moment, you're playing a clip off their phone or something like that.

Sophie Bearman

20:42 - 21:29

Exactly. Yeah, I have all the songs kind of preloaded on my computer. I actually choose sections of them in advance. Oftentimes, the guests, we ask them to send a bit of an annotation about the song, so they'll say something like when Tracy Chapman talks about getting in the car and driving. And so if I have that information, I'll choose those lyrics that moment. And, yeah, we talk about the song, and I just sort of say, let's take a listen. And, oh, it's so much fun. We have folks on the show singing, dancing in their chairs. I mean, we had a Dwayne Wiggins. He's a musician and the producer who discovered Beyonce and Destiny's child, but he was in, and there's a guitar on the wall, and he practically was, like, pulling that off the wall. I was like, okay, let's not.

Harry Duran

21:29 - 21:30

Are you getting any video clips?

Sophie Bearman

21:31 - 21:42

We don't yet. That is. I want to. It's a goal going back to that. Sort of, like, start with less, and then hopefully, if it's a hit, we'll amp right up. But we didn't want to over commit too early.

Harry Duran

21:43 - 21:51

Sounds like a good job for an intern, especially with your experience on that. You were mentioning the social media front with TikTok and stuff like that. You can just grab those behind the scene clips.

Sophie Bearman

21:52 - 21:53

It's so true.

Harry Duran

21:53 - 22:39

So where did you hone your interview skills? Because a 90 minutes interview is long and obviously you want to get, you probably have things that you want to get to and it's hard to cover, you know, in your mind what the output's going to be and what a finished product is going to be. But also these people have had really dynamic lives and, you know, you try to think about where you want to. Do you start at birth and in childhood and then do you start when they really started making a name for themselves? And time flies by really quickly when you're doing that. And especially these people, their time is precious, so you can't keep them in a room forever. So you have to prepare about all these things before you get there. And I'm curious what that process looks like for you so that you feel confident that when you're there with them, you're going to get the best out of them.

Sophie Bearman

22:40 - 24:44

Yeah, it's such a good question. So our process is we choose the guest even before they send their songs, which is a huge part of kind of my research. I start researching them and writing questions and sort of putting it all on paper. And I almost develop, like, not almost for every guest, I develop like a driving thesis, sort of. Obviously it's just a theory, but sort of an arc that I see emerge in their life that I'm interested in at least. And I sort of pose that as the question that I want to answer. Then I get the music and we get it about seven days ahead of the interview. And sometimes I'm like, oh, wow, we're starting over. You know, they have a, they're telling a story here and it's not what I expected, but oftentimes it does fit in. So, you know, I'm trying to think of a good example. We interviewed Robert Reich, who was the secretary of labor under Clinton, professor at Berkeley, and sort of a champion of equality and, you know, outspoken against oligarchies. Right. That's Robert Reich, and he's also four foot eleven and has spent his whole life basically standing up to bullies, whether they were in the schoolyard or later, much bigger bullies. And so that was sort of my thesis that I was playing with. And then I got his music and saw what fit. He chose a song from high school. There was always this weekend dance and no one would dance with him because he wasn't tall and no one wanted to. And so that fit and other things don't. And so it's a process. And sometimes I have the opportunity to email back and forth. That's great. So we can sort of. I can ask questions about the music and sometimes I dont have that chance, so I just do my best. And obviously you have to pivot in the interview and I also like to be surprised. So I think its a good thing when new themes emerge in the course of an interview and then you can address them in edit and retrack intros and all of that. So its iterative for sure.

Harry Duran

24:45 - 24:54

Has there ever been a moment where you felt like you were surprised by an answer the guest gave and if so, did you find you had to sort of think on the spot and pivot?

Sophie Bearman

24:54 - 25:27

Yes. Well, thankfully I'm often surprised and I don't know how common this is cause I'm still new to interviewing and podcasting, but I mentioned our senior producer, Jasmine Morris. She is listening in on every interview and we're in a doc together actually, that I kind of subtly look at. And so, you know, we have two brains. So sometimes she hears something or writes a question in time and you hear it from my mouth. But if you could see what was going on, it's her question. So I'm lucky to have multiple minds helping me pivot when necessary.

Harry Duran

25:27 - 25:43

So hopefully, if we've timed this right, the episodes will be live by this time. This episode goes live. And so how do you think about what to release and talk a little bit about the promotion and getting the word out about these episodes.

Sophie Bearman

25:44 - 26:48

Yeah, so we have a mix of guests just honestly still kind of playing with the order. Hopefully when this podcast comes out, it will be launched and you'll see the first two. We're going to launch on June 18 with two episodes. I for sure know what one will be and we have a couple options for the second. So it's a little bit of like what two voices work that aren't actually too similar, maybe not in the same fields. They're not both politicians. A nice mix for launch. And then one thing I didn't mention is the show is only coming out every. I shouldn't say only, it's coming out every other Tuesday. So it's bi monthly, it's not weekly. That's another place where we're hoping just like video, if all goes well, we can ramp up, but we'd rather kind of keep that quality bar and know that for sure in perpetuity, we can hit that cadence and then we can always grow the team and increase it from there. Still evolving, but we'll have two episodes June 18, and then two weeks after that, it'll be one every two weeks.

Harry Duran

26:48 - 26:52

And I'm assuming Griffin and the team have heard some of the episodes already.

Sophie Bearman

26:53 - 26:53

For sure.

Harry Duran

26:54 - 27:18

What's been their feedback? Because what's interesting is that when you think about, you look at a name like San Francisco standard, you think it's going to be covering just news or talking about stuff that's happening within that area. But there was a concerted effort to expand out and through this podcast now begin to have conversations that are outside of the west coast. And so I imagine that was the original goal when you came up with this idea. And so has there been any internal feedback on what the progress you're making?

Sophie Bearman

27:19 - 28:59

Yeah, it's such a good question. It's like New York magazine, you know, like New York is in the name, but they'll cover anything. And so that's, it's our first experiment into that, and hopefully it's great, and I think it's great. And Griffin and, you know, the team, everyone's excited, but certainly it's different for the standard. So it's an experiment and we'll see just how it grows. But we're definitely planning to give it a long Runway just because that's how podcasts, that's what they need. You know, word of mouth is still one of the biggest ways that people find a new show. Of course, we're doing cross promos and things like talking to you, which we're so glad about, but we're going to give it, you know, 612 months and see how it grows from there. But everyone is excited. The feedback has been good. You know, people, I think as they listen to the show and listen, multiple episodes will know what it is, and I think, importantly, what it isn't. I think about this a lot. I interviewed our current mayor. This is not KQED's forum. You know, I'm not asking her the hard hitting questions about homelessness or housing or the mayoral run that is upcoming. And that's okay. I think it's important to know what the show does. And of course, we talk about those issues. Of course, they're integral, actually, to this mayor's life, but through the lens of her story. So it's important to know what the show is and what it isn't. And the standard can be that place, and is that place if people want to know about those issues, like, we're writing about it, agnosium, we're doing videos about it. So there's a lot of that information out there, and the show is just a little bit a different side of people.

Harry Duran

29:00 - 29:10

Have you had any experience when you're in the process of these interviews, where you get the sense that they're speaking about something they might have not have talked about in a long time or even ever?

Sophie Bearman

29:10 - 30:23

Yes, I've had guests cry, which is always, like, as a host, you're like, ooh, did I do a good job? Not that you want to make people cry, but it's emotional. You know, we haven't talked too much about what music does to us. And I like to say, you don't have to be a, quote, music person or into music to have had music move you. Right. And I think that's really important. And I tell that to my guests as well. Robert Reich. I'm using him as an example again. He's like, I haven't listened to new music since the seventies. And I was like, fine, that's okay. It's not a popularity thing. It's just what formed you, what your mom played on the radio, you know? And so it just moves people, and I think it often even surprises them. I've learned to prime folks more for what the show actually is because in the beginning, I had people be like, whew, that was really intense, and I did not know what that was. And I was like, oh, sorry. So I've gotten better at sort of explaining, like, this is a warm setting. It's also really intimate. Sometimes we go deep sometimes, and then we also have a lot of fun. Like I said, you're gonna go, like, from dancing in your chair to a much more sort of emotional memory.

Harry Duran

30:24 - 31:01

So I can understand the connection to music, having grown up djing in New York. And, like, also the physical connection you have to music, you know, when it was still analog, that you can remember holding, like, an actual vinyl, like, remember, like, the run DMC album. And so I'm curious, like, when you think about this experience that you have with people and the connection that they have with music, how does that color, like, your ability to, you know, connect with them and hold space for them when they're talking about stuff that's, you know, personal? I know you mentioned, like, you know, they're sometimes surprised at the emotional response they get. But do you think about that going into these interviews, sort of, like, how.

Sophie Bearman

31:01 - 32:21

To hold space for the emotions that might come up yeah, I do. And often, even before the interview starts, I'll get feedback. Or I like to ask, like, how was that? You know, we call it their homework. Like, how was that for you? You know, and sometimes, even before I ask, people are like, that was really hard. And I think for some folks, it's like, really easy. I'm definitely in the hard camp. Like, I'm still happily making my list. And, you know, it's evolving. And I think everyone's songs, of course, are evolving. It's gotta be fluid to a degree. But, yeah, I just. I try to let people know ahead of time what kind of show it is. You know, obviously the show, by the time this podcast comes out, will be out. But these are brave enough guests to come on without, you know, having heard an example also. So that sort of surprise element will fade as it's out in the world and people can listen to our library of episodes. But, yeah, just really try to make space, ask, you know, say more about how you're feeling. I can see that that brought up something for you. Sometimes when people feel something, they stop talking. And so just letting silence exist in the room until they can pick it up again, things like that.

Harry Duran

32:21 - 32:44

Yeah, that holding silence thing is something I learned over the years, this idea of being comfortable with silence, because too often people who are just getting started interviewing, they get really uncomfortable and they ask a question and they don't get the immediate answer. So I think they try to fill the space. And normally, and this is probably something you've experienced as well, that silence is them preparing and deciding, you know, is this a safe space for me to actually share what I really feel in my heart?

Sophie Bearman

32:44 - 33:01

Silence is so powerful. I use it a lot. People sometimes are not done, you know, if you jump in too quickly, they're like, working on something, and if you just gave it another beat, you can be surprised. So I try to give that beat as often as I can.

Harry Duran

33:01 - 33:09

This is something that you've probably thought of because of the show, but I think you mentioned you are preparing your seven songs. Do you know what the seven songs would be for you?

Sophie Bearman

33:09 - 34:30

I thought you'd ask. I won't share all of them. I have a few, one of them, and I don't know if it's because I'm, you know, everyone is still living their lives, of course, but I still feel like there's probably many more songs to come. But one new song that emerged when I was hiking the PCT was by and by, by camp. I don't know if you know, it, but we were all, like, a big group of us had just exited the snowy Sierras in June. We're, like, just glad to be alive, honestly. It was real hairy in there. A lot of mountaineering, frankly. And there was a girl. Everyone on trail has, like, they go by a trail name, so not their real name. So her trail name was happy hour, and she carried ukulele the entire trip. And she finished this hike, and it was nuts. You try not to carry extra stuff, but she carried an instrument, and she has a beautiful voice, and she started singing this song. I'd never heard it. And then it sort of became the soundtrack of the rest of my hike. And a lot of the lyrics talk about just cherishing the time that we have and where you are. So it really resonated when I was on trail and then also missing family, but missing both happy to be where I was and reflecting on being far away and very apart. So that's one song, but I guess if I ever go on the show, I'll have to finalize it.

Harry Duran

34:30 - 34:41

That'll be the after hours or the bonus tape for folks as well. So as we get close to wrapping up, I usually have a couple of questions I ask guests. The first one is, what's something you've changed your mind about recently?

Sophie Bearman

34:41 - 35:44

Ooh, good question. So my husband, this is so random, but he's really into chess. He'd probably contest. He likes chess. He's not, like, really into chess. But I had given up learning for a long time because learning new things and hard things is hard. And I like to be good at things, and I don't like necessarily being bad at things for very long. And chess is something that you're going to be pretty bad at for a while. And just recently, I have started reading Bobby Fischer's, you know, learned chess and started playing and losing a lot to people, random people online, and it's fine. So that's a small thing, but I think it's important to not say no to things that are hard or that we kind of know we're not good at, because it doesn't matter. And we have a baby on the way as well. And I was like, I want to be able to play chess with her, you know, and for her to feel like she can play chess.

Harry Duran

35:45 - 35:46

Congratulations, by the way.

Sophie Bearman

35:47 - 35:47

Thank you.

Harry Duran

35:47 - 36:09

It's interesting. It's always been that idea of always being in the mind of the. Is it the mind of the beginner or. I forget what the phrase is, but always just having the beginner's mindset you know, and just putting yourself in situations where you're not the expert, you know, clearly you have expertise on the podcasting space and production space, but always reminding yourself that when you push yourself, I think you discover or new things about yourself that you might not have known.

Sophie Bearman

36:09 - 36:10

Absolutely.

Harry Duran

36:10 - 36:14

My next question is, what is the most misunderstood thing about you?

Sophie Bearman

36:14 - 37:09

Ooh, misunderstood. Hmm. This is going deep. Well, that's a really good question. I think I'd honestly love to know what my friends and family think, you know, or what they perceive me as. I am very positive person, I think, from the outside, and I am very confident, and that gotten me really far in life. I think people are always more sensitive than you realize. That's something that you need to know as a host. So I fit right into that category that it's not an armor you put on necessarily, but I just think that maybe from the outside, people perceive a certain confidence that. But if you saw me get home from work is not always there. I'll just leave it at that. We all have breakdowns, and that is a okay as well.

Harry Duran

37:09 - 38:01

Well, I appreciate you sharing that, and I appreciate you coming on. And it's so fascinating to see sort of the trajectory of your early career and where you're headed and how you've taken your passion for journalism and you've created all these opportunities for yourself. And now being in a situation where you're able to drive this project forward and take the lead. And also what I love is this resurgence of local news, because I think a lot of people have been worried about the demise of the local newspaper and the fact that you mentioned some of the hard hitting stories you're covering at the Standard. So I think this combination of using this new media to tell these stories, but also the fact that the Standard is highlighting and hopefully, in a way, resurrecting some of this news and local news that we seem to have lost with some of these local papers being snatched up. So I think both of those trends, I think, are headed in a positive direction. And it's nice to see that the projects you have underway there.

Sophie Bearman

38:01 - 38:18

Yeah, thanks for recognizing that. It's so important that the standard is doing both, you know, that we're trying new things and at the same time doing such a good job on our local coverage, which we really are. So it's only because we have that, that we can now experiment with something like this podcast.

Harry Duran

38:18 - 39:00

Well, I appreciate you taking the time to come on and for allowing us to be your first interview about the show. I'm excited to listen, it's been a while since I've immersed myself in some, like, really high quality podcasts with high production values. And obviously I'm gonna be hearing your voice, and I'm gonna be like, oh, I know, Sophie. And so it's gonna be nice when you can put a face to a name and you can have a connection to a show. It just makes the experience so much more enjoyable. So we'll be definitely, like, having links to the show, and we'll time it so that when this episode goes live, the show will be live as well. So I appreciate you coming on and working through the technical challenge of this conversation, but it was great to kind of get a little bit of your background and to hear your inspiring story, because I think there's no direct route to these types of jobs.

Sophie Bearman

39:00 - 39:09

And people think like, yeah, I appreciate you so much as well. This is a wonderful interview. You're a very warm interviewer and a nice space to talk about what we've been up to.

Harry Duran

39:09 - 39:16

So for folks, obviously, if you're listening to podcasts, you know how to find a podcast, but is there anywhere you want to send folks who are interested in learning more?

Sophie Bearman

39:17 - 39:39

Yeah, we have. Our website is lifeinsevensongs.com, also sfstandard.com life in Sevensonsongs. You'll find us at SF standard or on our sort of podcast separate website. And our trailer will be up starting June 4. So just when you come across the podcast, subscribe wherever you get your podcast.

Harry Duran

39:39 - 39:55

I love the best practices of having a URL that's specific for the show. We talk about that with clients I work with, like get the domain and you have lifeinsevensongs.com, which is going to make things so much easier for people to find as well. Well, thanks again for your time, Sophie. I really appreciate it.

Sophie Bearman

39:56 - 39:56

Thank you so much.