328 Mark Bishop - Exploring the Evolution of Broadcast Media

0:00:00 - Harry Duran

So Mark Bishop, host of the Mark Bishop show and Nothing Like A Good Book podcast. Thank you so much for joining me on Podcast Junkies.

0:00:07 - Mark Bishop

It's an absolute pleasure. I've been following you for years. We've chatted over emails and God knows what else, but no, it's a pleasure to be on. And podcast junkies. Gee, you've been going a while now with that.

0:00:21 - Harry Duran

Yeah, since 2014. 322 will be published tomorrow.

0:00:27 - Mark Bishop

You were about 22 ahead of me. Good job. Well, I think one of the last ones I heard is you were in a restaurant interviewing somebody.

0:00:34 - Harry Duran

Oh me, that was a while back. Okay, that was in a while back, though, so when did the podcasting journey start for you?

0:00:40 - Mark Bishop

Well, harry, four years now. Okay, four years ago I was doing a talk back show here in Tucson, where I live, and for a local AM station, a radio station, and after six months of it I was producing a show and getting guests and racing out afterwards to try and get clients and to sponsor the show and all that type of thing. And I'd had enough of it. I'd had years of it before and they used to pay me for the talent and to go out now and have to do all of that, then give 50% of it to a station. I thought something's wrong with this equation so it was too much to do. I'd already retired. I came back into it because I missed the media terribly and as anybody would understand if they've been in the game for a while. So I started up the studio downtown. I thought podcasting was going to be the future.

0:01:30 - Harry Duran

Yeah.

0:01:31 - Mark Bishop

And I teach people downtown businesses and what have you run their own shows, but I also love to still do my own interviews and my own shows as well. So yeah, four years I've been running now.

0:01:42 - Harry Duran

And where is the studio located?

0:01:44 - Mark Bishop

It's in downtown in Tucson itself. It's in the Stuart title and trust corporate offices and I've got it up there on the second floor on Broadway, but as close as I'll ever get to Broadway, but anyway, yeah, I've been there four years now and it's rather hot in Tucson.

0:02:02 - Harry Duran

That's right, we were just I like to stay home when I can. We were recording this in July of 2023. And I think you said the temperature reached 122, was it you said?

0:02:13 - Mark Bishop

Not here, phoenix, yes, but about 111 today We've come down a bit, you know. That's why it's nice when I'm up early in the morning and I do my early morning interviews back east. Yeah. Because the three hours difference is you know, for the Mark Bishop show. That's it. If the day finished, then it'd be good. Go play more golf.

0:02:32 - Harry Duran

Can you even play golf in this weather?

0:02:34 - Mark Bishop

It's too hot. This is the summer. Yes, it's too hot. Is this the hottest?

0:02:39 - Harry Duran

How long you been in Tucson.

0:02:40 - Mark Bishop

This time around 12 years, and before that I was in Phoenix. I had my company in Phoenix where I was marketing TV and you could go cook an egg on the road, you know, for lunch.

0:02:52 - Harry Duran

I mean 111 degrees. I think people can actually try this now, because it's crazy.

0:02:57 - Mark Bishop

That's right. Have you ever seen it Do?

0:02:59 - Harry Duran

you remember it ever getting this hot.

0:03:01 - Mark Bishop

No, you was coming though, right, no one's been listening to you know the global what he said. Yeah, We've got to do something. But, anyway, you're based in California.

0:03:11 - Harry Duran

I'm in Minneapolis now moved oh you've moved.

0:03:14 - Mark Bishop

Okay, mini, mini, nice.

0:03:16 - Harry Duran

It's nice. Yeah, I guess it was 91 today, so it's not exactly that cool here. But the winters definitely get just as cold as it gets hot here during the summer. So I'm getting full range of it, but it's nice to be just outside the city and a little bit of nature. There's some deers that come onto the property, some turkeys, and so I'm getting the full, not quite homesteading, but it is nice to get an opportunity to slow down, which is nice.

0:03:41 - Mark Bishop

It's to my farmer, huh.

0:03:42 - Harry Duran

Yeah.

0:03:43 - Mark Bishop

Living in luxury. Out on them, them deers.

0:03:47 - Harry Duran

And we had our neighbor take a vacation and we had to watch their chickens and let the chickens out the coop and everything.

0:03:53 - Mark Bishop

Very nice of you.

0:03:54 - Harry Duran

Yeah.

0:03:55 - Mark Bishop

Very nice of you. Well, you've done well. Good on you.

0:03:59 - Harry Duran

Go back. Let's wind the clock a little bit back. How did you get started in radio?

0:04:03 - Mark Bishop

Well, as a young fellow in Australia, I went to night school. Okay, I went to a particular place called the Lee Murray players. He was a very successful media man and radio announcer and producer himself over many years and I went to school something like five nights a week for four and a half years and finally I got in. I was only a young fellow, about 19 and a half, and you have to start in the country and you got to work your way, get your stripes as they say.

And then country, provincial, then cap city, you know, yeah, then, at 26, I wanted to do television. So they said, well off you go. You got to start all over again. But I was very fortunate, Harry, I didn't have to go to a real heat country town to start. I got my break in a big regional centre. So they taught you everything. You know, it was amazing and I think there's a lot of similarities with radio and television and I think, if you can fly into it, which I did I thoroughly loved it and enjoyed it.

0:05:03 - Harry Duran

But you know, there's still parts of radio Ie podcasting that you don't get in television you know If you can remember back to what the original draw was that pulled you into want to dedicate that much time to learning that craft? Can you think about what that was?

0:05:19 - Mark Bishop

Well, even as a kid other than coming home from the movies and the matinee on a Saturday afternoon in Melbourne, australia, and putting a cape on and jumping off the woodshed playing Superman or Batman or Hop along Cassidy, that was wanting to be an actor I don't know how on earth I ended up at a radio school, but I did. I think one of my buddies was going at the time and then, once I started it, I just loved it. I knew I had to get into it. I knew I had to do well in it. You know, attack it properly, give it all I could, learn everything I could, and my favourite shows were like Breakfast or a Talk Back Show, all sporting on a Saturday afternoon six-date racing and football. You know, one stayed in this year and another stayed in that year?

Yeah, I think it was. You know, achieving a dream, sticking to it, yeah, when did you learn that work ethic?

0:06:10 - Harry Duran

Where did it come from?

0:06:11 - Mark Bishop

Don't know, it was the same at school, maybe my grandfather. In fairness, god bless his soul. He was an aggregate electrical engineer, but his hobby was buying old homes, building them up, cleaning them up, making them lovely. Then we'd move on again. So, consequently, I lived with my grandparents and my mom and I used to clean bricks for him and hand him the saw when he wanted it, or the hammer or whatever, and I was determined not to be a tragedy guy. He wanted me to be one, but it wasn't for me. I respect horses for courses, you know.

0:06:43 - Harry Duran

Yeah.

0:06:43 - Mark Bishop

And he never really understood what I wanted to do, why I wanted to be an announcer, why I wanted to get into radio and all those nights. You know I would stick at that and go to school. They'd work during the day and go to school at night. But until before he died, before he passed, he actually came to my very first station and I was doing that sport. It was 2AY in Albury, up in the country, out of Melbourne, Twin City, between Woodonga and Albury, between Melbourne and Sydney, if you had to get over there. Anyway, long story short, he came into the studio with my grandma and my mom and he saw the effort and the work and the sweat, what I was going through and from then on he really appreciated what I did.

That's great. And he'd be appreciated and respected and always let me know he was very proud of me.

0:07:37 - Harry Duran

Oh, that's great, that's a great story.

0:07:38 - Mark Bishop

That was nice, you know what I mean, because my dad had died in the war, so he was like my father, you know. Oh, that's nice yeah.

0:07:45 - Harry Duran

But I think it sounds like what you took from your grandfather was really the work ethic.

0:07:48 - Mark Bishop

I think that was it, and that's why I was sharing that. I think you're right, and so I'm grateful for more than one thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think that was the part of it all. Yes, yes, the work ethic, because when you do get in, then you go to work.

0:08:04 - Harry Duran

Were there people in radio that you were listening to, that you admired? Oh, very much so.

0:08:11 - Mark Bishop

In fact, a lot of the guys I went to school with, in radio school, you know they all went on not all of them, but a lot of them went on and worked in stations around Australia and you'd bump into them occasionally. Some of them went to television, but when I was in Melbourne at the time in answering your question very good question actually I did have idols actually on television reading the news. Okay, channel 9 and.

0:08:33 - Harry Duran

Channel 7.

0:08:35 - Mark Bishop

And a long story. Short years later, when I finally made it back in Melbourne, my hometown, what we call the big league I was reading news of an evening prime news and I actually bumped off those guys in the radio. That was the biggest thrill of my life, that's great.

0:08:50 - Harry Duran

You know, it was a miracle. Yeah so there we go.

0:08:53 - Mark Bishop

What would you say, your time?

0:08:55 - Harry Duran

in obviously learning the basics, you learn the ropes of what to do technically. But then, once you had the broadcasting job and you were moving up the ranks, what were the skills that you were acquiring that was helping you, you know? Is it communication skills or the ability to tell a story? Can you kind of articulate? What is it that you were improving on when it comes to radio?

0:09:16 - Mark Bishop

I think it was confidence, more than anything, believe it or not, I can be an introvert. Yeah, and I'd be very shy at parties and things like that. You know until I got whacked or something. But and that's not whacked in America. That's something completely different. That's a little too much An abbreviated. Yeah, an abbreviated.

0:09:36 - Harry Duran

That's it. You get whacked. You get whacked in the States that's a mafia term for. That's the end of it. Yeah.

0:09:44 - Mark Bishop

Well, there's quite a few of those I could share with you which were quite funny, but no, I think, the drive to succeed, to do better communications, learning how to ad lib at any time, on the spot, no matter what you had to do, which came in very handy for television because you know if you lost the link or something else happened. I remember once I was working in Townsville, way up on the north coast of Australia, and it was a season for hurricanes, which we have between. No, not hurricanes, you have hurricanes, we have hurricanes here in America. They're called Tyro, dear Cyclones in Australia Okay.

Yeah, all right, and our season there is 12 is around about December through March and I was on a break on a holiday on an island way out and this cyclone came and they raced me back to the channel to add a live for a while about the weather where it was and I had a Football jacket on. I haven't shaved for a couple of days I was. The seas coming back were very scary, but when I think back, that's a time where you learned all that ad lib stuff, all that stuff that you had to think about very quickly and take it from here to here and get it out. And another time was I was hosting the cricket of all things from England in a Melbourne studio and the link went and I think I had lived for about two hours.

0:11:05 - Harry Duran

Oh, wow.

0:11:07 - Mark Bishop

It was a lot and I was looking for people to drag in, but there was nobody around at two in the morning, so I told jokes and shared things and anything else I could. Oh, look at this, it's a box. You know what a box is made of?

0:11:21 - Harry Duran

It's a good opportunity to think on your feet, and then that's probably an important skill to have.

0:11:26 - Mark Bishop

It is in particularly with interviewing because I treat podcasting very much the way that I did radio. Yeah and I teach my students to to be very either work or don't do it. You know, there's no halfway measure. Yeah, and, and unfortunately you know, if you meet people who wouldn't work in an iron lung, harry, you're not gonna get them to do what you want them or need them to do if they don't really want to do it.

0:11:48 - Harry Duran

Yeah, yeah, you know.

0:11:51 - Mark Bishop

You've got to have the drive and put the work into it, the effort into it. Even for me, I mean and I still prepare every interview it might take two hours, I don't care. I want to get it right, the research right. Do what you got to do, because you never know who's going to listen. That's the beauty of podcasting isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely, you know you go everywhere, right, and you never know. I mean, I get emails and letters from I'm surprised overseas, really, but you just never know who's gonna pick it up. And it's nice to entertain people and I'd like to get the best out of people that I can Interview because they've got a story to tell. Yeah, of course and the more you can share with people. I think, harry, the more people learn, the more they have hope. You know, because we've been going through a rough time, haven't we?

Yeah yeah, last few years. Wow, I'll tell you what. And now we've got weather, you know. But the other guns will be here soon.

0:12:43 - Harry Duran

Well, now that it's officially confirmed for me and I think it's something that most people actually Suspected already knew, and I think it hopefully gives people who we're seen as lunatics or on the fringe some validation, because, you know, I think we all knew and I wonder how, what it's like for the people who were vehemently opposed to it or really convinced that that was not the case and, as we know, with all things government related, you know there's the truth always comes out.

0:13:08 - Mark Bishop

Well, my friend, until actually land on the White House lawn, I guess, and you and I get a chance to race up into an interview with them, yeah, no one will ever believe us, you know, but I've. There's already been one here for ages.

0:13:19 - Harry Duran

Yeah.

0:13:21 - Mark Bishop

Yeah, who am I referring to?

0:13:22 - Harry Duran

in the estates mean yes.

0:13:26 - Mark Bishop

The guy has to be an alien my friend. He can't. It works, you know, 44 hours a day.

0:13:32 - Harry Duran

You know I'm talking about the guy to Tesla? Yeah, yeah, strange one for sure.

0:13:38 - Mark Bishop

Oh, he's a genius mate. I really do believe he's an absolute genius. He's IQ is you know he's. That's why I call him jokingly and nicely, sir. Yeah don't sue me, I wouldn't mind working for him. You learn a hell of a lot to be honest.

0:13:51 - Harry Duran

Yeah, I'm sure you got to deal with his temperament. I'm sure he's cut from a different cloth.

0:13:56 - Mark Bishop

Have you ever met him?

0:13:57 - Harry Duran

No, I haven't.

0:13:58 - Mark Bishop

I'd like to know.

0:14:01 - Harry Duran

What was the biggest difference when you made the jump from radio to TV?

0:14:05 - Mark Bishop

Depending on other people. Oh, interesting and that's the part of television I don't like, but you've got to like it if you want to go to air. Yeah, the beautiful thing about working in radio and not Even here in the state you have what we call bored guys. Okay, we never had that in Australia. You did everything yourself.

Yeah you went to air, you prepared your car. She prepared everything you needed for your ads, all your promos. You had your vinyl when it was vinyl. Then you had your other discs and D, whatever, dvds, right. But no, you prepared it all. You got it already because the buck stopped with you. Now You've got your, you know your program directors, directions, everything else is supposed to do, and so on and so on. But you go to air with it, you're operating it and you're at one with it. When it comes to television, okay, you're lucky enough, if you're working with professionals, to have a makeup lady, right?

Yeah and see, I sure don't have one now the reality and I can't do it properly because it's too heavy. But not only that. You get to the studio You'd have people give you that. I would get the news an hour beforehand and practice and go through it all. But really, once you sit in that studio and if you're doing news or whether you're hosting a show now, everybody else comes in the play. And it's a great thing if you're a team and you're working together and you've, and it goes smoothly, there's nothing better. But if you're, you know, accounting on people to bring you in at a certain time, or at least you're talking away and there's no volume for the audio right.

Or you're mentioning, or you've thrown to a particular clip for news and it's not there. They put the wrong clip up.

0:15:39 - Harry Duran

Yeah, yeah.

0:15:40 - Mark Bishop

I mean, they're the things, you wear them. That's part of the game. Yeah but you really would prefer they didn't happen. Yeah you know, that's when you need to add lip.

0:15:50 - Harry Duran

It teaches you how to think on your feet and how to think quickly, and I can see how a lot of that could translate to managing an interview and Could you deal with a bunch of different personalities. Sometimes a guest will just give you the shortest answer possible and you've got to fill up the space and sometimes they'll start rambling. You got a reel and back in. So all these things that you're mentioning the radio, the TV I can see how they're coming back and those skills are very valuable for being in the podcast space.

0:16:17 - Mark Bishop

Yes, indeed, and well, here it's a bit ironic again because, as much as I love doing podcasting, when we're audio, okay, yeah, there's not a lot to worry about in preparation there and so on but now, like you and I, we're doing a video. Yeah, and I'm hoping to do a lot more video. Right, but I'm not technical. Yeah and I have this left brain, right brain thing and for some reason I'm scared of it all but, I have to get over that.

I have to learn to be able to Do what I need to do, to be able to produce what I want to produce, and that's doing more shows. You know it's like doing TV shows. Yeah but doing them online instead for streaming.

0:16:58 - Harry Duran

Yeah right.

0:16:59 - Mark Bishop

I'd like to do that, yeah, and that takes a little bit, without having seen the old days. Harry, it was the studios that that made the money. You'd have to go to a studio to do a show and they'd have, maybe, a big green screen hanging in the corner. They might have, you know, or you would organize it. A couple of nice cities.

With a couple of trees you know false trees, but a nice little set, right, yeah. Now those days are gone. Everybody's gone online, you know, because covert forced, that started with zoom, of course. Then there's all these other platforms that have come up and you can do all sorts of things that have cut out that studio.

Yeah and it's a little bit lonely in some ways. But if you buy yourself but it's good if you can get a producer in with you to do the switching and if you're hosting a show you don't have to worry about it then you know what I mean. Yeah but no, that's the future, I think, don't you?

0:17:53 - Harry Duran

Yeah, I mean, I think you Obviously everyone was forced into figuring out how to do this thing remotely post COVID, and it's changed everything. There's no turning back the genies out of the bottle. Right, remote work, people are requesting that to work a hundred percent from home, what you used to think had to be done in the studio. Because of tools like squadcasts that we're using today, you can get high quality audio, you can record on location, and so I think it's forcing creators and podcasters specifically to adapt to this new way of doing things and also Looking at it from an opportunity perspective, not a constriction or a limitation.

0:18:28 - Mark Bishop

Totally agreeing with you. How did you find it after all the years, with Audio thing then going to video?

0:18:34 - Harry Duran

I actually started with video. To believe it or not, did you really? Back in 2014, skype was my tool of choice for recording, but there was a whole Skype.

There was a plug-in you could use called Ecamm call recorder. So, right, if you plugged it into Skype you could watch the video of the person. You weren't it wasn't recording video at the time, but I could have the audio conversation. So it's recording the audio while we're talking and I could see the person. And what I found mark was just the ability to have that body language, the face-to-face interaction and also building the Relationship, because I would go to a podcast conference and people would see me in person and be like hey, we just spoke for an hour, so I, you can make an impression on someone if you do a good job, and then it's for me. I realized from day one. I said I'm gonna talk for an hour to this person, I want to build that relationship. You know, if there, if it was just audio.

They had no idea what I look like, you know, and so I knew there was something in my brain that said I want to build this relationship Because of this time that I'm taking, that I'm investing in having this conversation, and I'm glad it paid off, because it sort of helped me cut my teeth on having and being present, because when it's video you can't be on a pad or you can't be fiddling around with something else. You know you get distracted and you could ask someone a tough question. If you hear silence on the other end, you're like are you still there, mark? Can you do you want me to repeat the question? You know right, sometimes people are just like they're thinking right, what answer should I give Harry? Should I give him the correct answer or should I give him the heartfelt answer? You know right.

0:19:59 - Mark Bishop

You know you did right and I remember you came and I think about it now. You could see, because the old saying of being able to, you know, look somebody in the eyes when you talk in the when. Yet it's ironic with this because I'm looking on my desktop, on my iMac, the big Little green light there, right, that's the camera, so I could look at your eyes directly. And yet I know below that I'm looking at the vision. Right, I can see you moving. But if I tried to look down at you and look at your vision, now I'm, now I'm looking down, yes, it's, you've got to get adjusted this a little bit, that's the whole thing. But no, it's interesting. You know it's interesting. That's a beautiful sound you're coming through with. Is that a sure?

0:20:40 - Harry Duran

That's the sure SM7B, yeah, which you might know from the radio days, I guess maybe well, that beautiful microphone, I use a podcast mic.

0:20:48 - Mark Bishop

Yeah, from you know the people that made the mixer.

0:20:51 - Harry Duran

Yes, thank you. There you go free. Plug for road.

0:20:58 - Mark Bishop

Yeah, very nice microphone, very directional, but I think I'm gonna get myself one of them, to be honest with you.

0:21:07 - Harry Duran

So talk to me about the origins of the Mark Bishop. So obviously you've had the experience. You definitely put in your hours. You knew what you were doing and I'm curious, you know how you came up with the idea and what your thoughts were. You know the concept for your show when you first started.

0:21:23 - Mark Bishop

Well, I'd be lying if I said that I went out and founded a company in America. In fact, they're the biggest in what they do in communications. They actually contacted me and Asked if I'd be interested in doing interviews.

Now these interviews are only 10 and 12 minutes, so they're short, which I don't mind okay, but and I said of course I would be the money, with all due respect, isn't there, you know, but it's better than nothing. Yeah, and beggars can't be choosers, and I'm grateful for that. And when it got real, real busy there for a while, it'd be nothing for me to do. Seven, eight, ten of these a week. Oh wow, they were all in the morning because of the Chicago or New York time difference of three hours, so I might be up at six or seven, but then I'm done. You know what I mean.

Yeah and I was actually the first podcaster in, the only podcaster that got these interviews to do, while the rest of everybody were broadcasters or announcers on radio stations across America. So, ironically, I am podcasting and doing those interviews, but I got such a lovely feedback from people, a lot of business. People are really nice people. You know the, the CEOs or the director of marketing or or the owner of this company, whatever yeah if did a good interview with them, and this is where it pays to do the work it's your well aware.

They were very, very impressed with the interviews and have since requested. You know that I continued to do them. So that was a great thing. But of course, my own stuff with another one I do with nothing like a good book. I do that for nothing, why? Because I'm trying to help authors and good authors and you know they're nobody's, they're not Tom Clancy's, but you know what one of them has just done so well with these books that Hollywood's off. Well, provided Hollywood can get back together, they're offering a series you know like nice like JK.

What's?

0:23:23 - Harry Duran

an energy rally? Was that from visibility on the nothing like a good book podcast?

0:23:28 - Mark Bishop

Yes, it actually went off that and it was heard by a producer, and the producer in turn chased up the author and good luck to him. I said I want free tickets to the opening night. I've always promised myself the red carpet, you know. Without having to go out and buy one, I'd love to go to Hollywood.

0:23:44 - Harry Duran

Yeah, of course we all would. I'm curious. I'm curious about the jump, because you said you were doing these short formats. Did you see Seven minutes or 12 minutes?

0:23:53 - Mark Bishop

No no 10 to 12 minutes. 10 to 12 minutes of an interview, quick interviews there to the point.

0:23:58 - Harry Duran

And how much prep are you doing?

0:24:00 - Mark Bishop

Quite a bit yeah, quite a bit for that, but it's worth it, because I was being paid for it.

0:24:04 - Harry Duran

Yeah.

0:24:05 - Mark Bishop

And again you're doing something to try and build your brand.

0:24:07 - Harry Duran

Yeah.

0:24:08 - Mark Bishop

And you're trying to, you know, because I look at it like I'm starting all over again, you know.

0:24:13 - Harry Duran

Sure.

0:24:13 - Mark Bishop

This is a new industry and although I've been going four years and teaching people downtown and they've got their business podcast for lead generation, yeah, then I do my own interviews and my own shows. But now going one step further is to where I love writing. You see, harry, I've written a lot of documentaries and I'm about to do a book, but I love writing short shows. Okay.

0:24:36 - Harry Duran

And.

0:24:36 - Mark Bishop

I love producing them and I'm really now trying to go after a market that businesses would love their own shows and their video. But they've also got an open and a close and they've got mid rolls.

0:24:50 - Harry Duran

Yeah.

0:24:50 - Mark Bishop

They've got guests on them? Sure, they've got. Maybe it's spinning wheel on them. The whole thing's a giggle, you know what I mean. So now it's TV show.

0:24:59 - Harry Duran

What did you notice about the difference when having to do those short form interviews and the amount of prep you had to do? And obviously, because it's a really tight timeframe, there's not a lot of room for fluff there. I mean, I would imagine. How is that different from anything you had to shift your mindset on when it came to a longer form interview?

0:25:18 - Mark Bishop

Well, obviously, the time is less. You're trying to get to a point. You want to get to the major points. So you might think about well, there's all that full page. Let me take only what I really want from that. Let me now do bullet points. Let me get to this. So, if nothing else, the guy's happy that you've at least covered what the company wants to talk about Okay. And what do you want to ask?

0:25:40 - Harry Duran

Yeah.

0:25:41 - Mark Bishop

But at the same token, you were able to go open, identify who am I talking to. What gives you the right to be interviewed?

0:25:47 - Harry Duran

What's so good about it all? Yeah?

0:25:49 - Mark Bishop

And let's close with it. What's the message? You know what I mean.

0:25:53 - Harry Duran

Yeah, it seemed that there would be a common thread there. In such a short period of time, you have to very quickly establish the credentials of this guest in a way that keeps the listener engaged, and you have to show their value in such a short period of time and then I'll give them an opportunity to talk a little bit about themselves and then close. I'm just interested because obviously I try to keep these within 45 minutes to an hour, but that's a lot of time for us to have a lot of back and forth conversations, especially, you know we've talked about your history as well, but you can't not a lot of time for fluff in that short window.

0:26:27 - Mark Bishop

No, no. And how are we doing? Are we over the hour?

0:26:29 - Harry Duran

again. No, we're good Do you feel?

0:26:33 - Mark Bishop

But there's a point there that you brought up that's very important. There are podcasts that are three hours long and there are 10 minute podcasts Right, but it seems to be from what I'm reading of late and more and more stats are coming out and points of view and so on, but 45 minutes seems to be the settling point at the.

0:26:52 - Harry Duran

Moment.

0:26:53 - Mark Bishop

I mean, what do you think about that?

0:26:55 - Harry Duran

I heard someone describe it once, because this is a common question for podcasts. You know how long should a podcast be, and someone said something that I thought was really insightful it should be as long as it takes to keep the listeners' interest in the topic, and so if you're doing a five minute show, it's a new show, that's what you signed up for, so you're going to get interchained. But if you have a Joe Rogan show and it's three hours and I'm still listening after two and a half hours, well, good on that host and good on Joe for keeping me engaged or keeping me laughing or keeping it, because it's, you know, matter. I always say it's going to be enlightening, educating or entertaining. You know and I might be missing another one, but you have to get something out of it, and I'm always conscious of that in my conversations with guests that I keep the conversation going. I keep it entertaining or educating or enlightening for the listener. I'm always conscious of that.

I always talk about the three people in a conversation that guest, the host and the listener and I never forget that we have one listener, singular, at a time and this is important, because everyone's listening with their earbuds and so you're not on stage and a lot of times public speakers, they come on podcast and they're like hey everyone, what's going on? Welcome to. You, know, and you can probably speak to. You know how that experiences on radio and TV. But I think what I've heard some earlier guidance about really thinking about that one listener, you know, because it's really one person listening to us having this conversation at a time and we're always conscious of it, and so if there's something specific that I don't think they'll understand or listen, or know the definition of all, I'll ask my guests. I said hey, mark, for the benefit of listener, can you explain what that concept means or where in Australia you were referring to? And I found that makes it like a more intimate conversation because it's an intimate medium. Right, people are listening, they're on the walk.

0:28:38 - Mark Bishop

It's very much an intimate medium. Yeah, they're walking the dog, you know.

How many times have your career in podcasting have you had to explain to a client, an advertiser, a sponsor, somebody that would like to back you in one way or another? Look, the reality is you can spend it on radio, generically, or television. They may have 20, 30, 40,000 listeners at that given time, but you might be lucky if a quarter of a quarter of a percent are even interested in what you're talking about. The beauty of podcasting is look, I've only got 300 followers. I've only got 3000 followers, but they're all intentional listeners.

0:29:15 - Harry Duran

Oh yeah.

0:29:16 - Mark Bishop

And they all love what you know the show is about. Yes, they flitter about a little bit, but mostly they always follow me because they like what they hear and that's how you're building your scenario. I mean, if I'm ever jealous of one guy, I think it's Rogan. There's no doubt about it. I didn't love a show like he's doing, but of course you had to be a comedian first or some big brand and look at the budgets. So he gets. Of course he's going to get superstars and people to be able to interview, isn't he? He's going to get them all the time. The only thing I found difficult with him with podcasting was all the swearing. I mean, I've got a 40 year career. If I swore once like that, I'd be fired immediately.

0:29:52 - Harry Duran

Well, that's the beauty of podcasting and how things have changed, because you can see whatever the hell you want and people, and if it's not for you, then it repels people as fast as attraction, because for some people that's how people normally speak to their friends and they feel like they have to put on airs to be. You know, we're in polite companies, so maybe we can't say shit and damn. But hey, if you want to. I love you, I'm talking about worse than that, I'm sure.

0:30:15 - Mark Bishop

No, but you've got to be yourself, and I agree with that. That is the beauty of it. But I think in time I don't know who could control this lot with podcasting, but I think in time the big finger will come down on that too.

0:30:26 - Harry Duran

But that's the beauty of podcasting there is no big finger. People have tried it with Joe. They try to quote, unquote cancel him. You can't. I think what's so amazing and I was talking about some to this someone earlier today is we're at a point now, because of podcasting, that if you want to have a topic about whatever fringe topic you want and you know for the most part you'll find your little audience and they'll listen to it and it may be a small show but maybe or maybe a big show like Joe's. But if you like the topic and you want to, it's hard to be asked. You've been on TV, you know. You invite a guest on and they put on their best airs and they give you the three minutes, snippet, the exact talking points and they can tell you exactly. You don't know anything about this person, they're just showing you their best face. You put someone on a podcast for three hours. It's really hard to be asked for three hours. I'll get good idea of whether you're full of crap or not.

So, I just love that ability to just kind of go deep on these topics. And you know it's instead of buyer beware, it's listener beware. If you don't like it, you don't have to listen. Clearly he's hitting a nerve, because it's the number one show for a reason.

0:31:30 - Mark Bishop

Well, there you go. And the other fellow who I listened to. I listened to PBS a bit, but in the car, you know, fuzzy was he. He's been around for years.

0:31:40 - Harry Duran

Not Jerry Seinfeld.

0:31:42 - Mark Bishop

No, no, no. As a matter of fact, I saw him the other night into his son doing a show.

0:31:45 - Harry Duran

Okay.

0:31:46 - Mark Bishop

And I was in the front row and it was. It was terrific to see. He's a very talented guy. Mind you, the guy had on before him. Opening the show was even better Okay.

0:31:55 - Harry Duran

No.

0:31:56 - Mark Bishop

I had a nothing that show good on him Anyway.

0:31:59 - Harry Duran

So I'm curious what prompted you to start the second show? Nothing like a good book, like what was the itch you were scratching there?

0:32:05 - Mark Bishop

Well, I'm not a great reader, but I do want to write and I have written a lot. I've written four shows that I want to produce put on air.

0:32:15 - Harry Duran

Okay.

0:32:16 - Mark Bishop

Like we're doing now, only these shows and get them sponsored. Okay, that's. The next challenge is learning how to go after the right sponsor in America for the right show. Okay, but how do you sell a show if you don't have thousands of listeners? So it's very much got to be, you know. Hopefully they can see that it will get listeners or viewers. But I think that people can write very good books and I think you can learn from whom you interview. These interviews are 30 minutes long and you can go right into a book. I don't read the full book, I pray, see it and you often get, with the books, of course, press releases and other materials and these days, what they're doing, which probably you know about anyway, they're doing a lot of video links to actually promote the book. So that's being seen to, you know, on Amazon and other places like that. But I enjoy helping them get promoted to hopefully sell a few.

0:33:22 - Harry Duran

Makes sense.

0:33:23 - Mark Bishop

I learn from it why they wrote the book and how they went about it. So maybe one day I'll get a sponsor for the show and it'll be worthwhile doing all the effort and all the work, because there's only X amount of hours in a day and if you're doing too much free stuff, you know how are you paying the bills. You love it, but hey.

0:33:44 - Harry Duran

Yeah, I hear you, I hear you.

0:33:47 - Mark Bishop

Because the Minister for War and Finance gets a bit upset, you know.

0:33:52 - Harry Duran

So for the work that you do with clients who would you say is an ideal person for you to work with, given all the experience you had, I'm sure there's like a sweet spot of people who you enjoy working with and who enjoy working with you because they can leverage all your years of radio and TV experience.

0:34:07 - Mark Bishop

Oh man, that's a tough question, because the way I do my podcast downtown, so to speak- is geared at businesses, small business. Their objective is only to get more business. And when I meet them and they start with me and they say gee, how long before I get 5,000 listeners, you know how many will I get such and such.

Whoa none, absolutely none. What do you mean? None, you start with none and unless you do what I tell you to do, you'll end up with none. But seriously, if you really want to get more business, then I go into all my parallel, I do my whiteboard. I'm going to cut a long story short. I've got clients, buddy, that are running at 418% return of investment over what they've spent with me in four years, so I must be doing something right.

0:35:00 - Harry Duran

The ones that have success. What's the common thread there?

0:35:04 - Mark Bishop

Prepared to work.

0:35:06 - Harry Duran

Okay, that's good.

0:35:07 - Mark Bishop

Bottom line, prepared to work and prepared to just give that little bit extra, Because if you don't, I mean I know things have changed. People quit during COVID People had awakenings. I don't want to do this anymore. I just want to go out and do what I want to do. Follow your dream and the money will come.

Bullshit. You know you've got to be. You've still got to be prepared to work. There are no shortcuts. Your mom and dad were right. Your granddad was right. You've got to be honest with yourself in life and work Right, and if you do that then there's a good chance the money will come. Would you agree with that, harry?

0:35:43 - Harry Duran

Absolutely, absolutely. I always people talk about luck and I always say that luck is when preparation meets opportunity.

0:35:50 - Mark Bishop

Yeah, I like that one.

0:35:51 - Harry Duran

Yeah, yeah. And can you see that commitment to doing the work early, or do you see it over the course of when they start working with you, or are there questions you ask them? Is there something that you can identify early in the process?

0:36:06 - Mark Bishop

Yes, we sit down. I give free consultation. I try to get right into the brain of who they are, what they really want, what their goals are. Never mind, just talk to me about goals. Anybody can talk about goals. Prove to me that you really want these goals.

0:36:25 - Harry Duran

Interesting.

0:36:25 - Mark Bishop

Right, put them on the whiteboard, but I don't know who to do, I don't know how to go about it. Let's just work it through and talk about it, okay, because this is what I would be commanding of you this, this and this. Are you prepared to do it? Oh my God, it seems like a lot of work. Well, well, I'm sorry, mary, I'm sorry, john, I can't guarantee you results then because it's the 50-50. It's a quid pro quo.

You put in, I put in Together, we'll achieve it. If I try and be you, I can't. You've got to be you, but you've got to take from me what I can teach you to be you, to get what you want to get If we work together. And you know, sometimes I get accused of being too hard, too nasty too, this too, that. Listen, at the end of the day, all I care about is winning, all I care about is getting the job done. Talk about it later with your mates in the pub or somewhere else. They put you down. Prove to them then. Look what I made this month. What did you make?

0:37:26 - Harry Duran

Yeah.

0:37:26 - Mark Bishop

You know what I mean. Don't let people stop you, drive at it, go for it, be yourself. And if you're young, you're lucky, because you know it doesn't take long. Before you're my age, I'm telling you, it just creeps up on you. They're right when they talk about that. I wish this podcasting was around, harry 40 years ago.

0:37:46 - Harry Duran

Me too. I really do. You know what I mean. I hear you.

0:37:50 - Mark Bishop

Dear idea. They're so lucky the kids are today, but never mind. But and you've got to be honest with yourself. It means if you go to work during the day, you've got to do it. If you're running a business during the day, these people are tired, but by the end of the day they don't want to be working on something else or preparing. Well, that's where that drive comes in.

That's where that push comes in. And if you do do that, it's soon going to be that you won't have to put as much time into it, because you're ahead of the game. You've learned shortcuts, you know what to do.

0:38:21 - Harry Duran

Yeah.

0:38:21 - Mark Bishop

Right and you've got to keep pushing. Then you can afford to quit the job or do what you want to do and go that way, you know make sense. Look at me. I mean I've come out of retirement.

0:38:32 - Harry Duran

Yeah.

0:38:32 - Mark Bishop

I've still got goals I want to do. It's extremely hard to be in radio and television 40 years and do nothing. Yeah you can't play golf every day. You know there's something that's not on the heat anyway, but I'm talking professionally. It's very hard. There's tons of jocks out there around the world. Sure, there's tons of major news anchors on television there's station hosts.

There's guys that have had shows. Keep going for your bucket list. As a matter of fact, harry, I had one on the bucket list for the states that I'd never achieved 20 years on and off living here, and last weekend I went for a part in a movie. I want the acting bit. It's taken years to get here.

Yeah, yeah, I went for a small part, quite happy to do that that I'd achieved for the bucket list. Okay, not to be a superstar or anything, just sure I don't care if I walked on, drop the tray and walk off, but I got this small part. They were wrapped and so much so they asked me to read for the lead Very, nice, very nice. I guess we got the lead.

0:39:38 - Harry Duran

You did, I did.

0:39:41 - Mark Bishop

And that's without any experience or big name or no other. You know no, nicole Kidman or no, what's his name? And lots of Tom Cruise. Jack Bennett of Australia. I'm a nobody. I'm nobody, baby.

0:39:56 - Harry Duran

His word comes full circle. Preparation meets opportunity.

0:40:01 - Mark Bishop

Spot on.

0:40:02 - Harry Duran

You were prepared.

0:40:02 - Mark Bishop

By gee. That's a good statement.

0:40:04 - Harry Duran

Yeah, yeah. So it's like, can I use that? Yeah, you quote me on that.

0:40:08 - Mark Bishop

That's very nice of you. See, he's a lovely bug. He shares everything.

0:40:11 - Harry Duran

Yeah, and so make sure you let us know what that movie is and we can put a link to it.

0:40:15 - Mark Bishop

I will, it's called An Eye for an Eye.

0:40:16 - Harry Duran

Okay.

0:40:17 - Mark Bishop

And, ironically, the lead is the head of mafia.

0:40:20 - Harry Duran

Oh, okay, all right, and.

0:40:22 - Mark Bishop

I've got to wear a beautiful 1930s three piece like a. Jeff Long, bloody don. And then a hat that goes with it, right.

0:40:30 - Harry Duran

So it comes back full circle to getting whacked. See, I'm paying attention.

0:40:39 - Mark Bishop

I don't give up your day job. It's not bad, not bad have you ever? Wanted to be a comedian.

0:40:43 - Harry Duran

I appreciate comedy and I can tell a good joke if in the right circumstances. But it is. I forget them. I got thousands of them, but I forget them. Yeah, me too, Me too.

0:40:51 - Mark Bishop

You know, but I would have loved to have shot it. Stand up for a little while. Yeah, just for that.

0:40:55 - Harry Duran

It's a skill and I love to hear when Joe talks about it or we know as a comedian, and they talk about the art of comedy and it's really like when you see someone do it well, it's really amazing that they can do that for 45 minutes for a set and just keep you laughing the whole time.

0:41:10 - Mark Bishop

Yeah, that's why I was surprised when I watched Seinfeld live in Tucson. He actually had the prompt little cards.

0:41:16 - Harry Duran

Yeah, he's probably learning new material. He's probably practicing some new stuff. That's what they do, yeah.

0:41:20 - Mark Bishop

You know I said, well, they do. And he walks back to the stool, you know, while he's controlling you, and then goes back and a little flip and oh yeah, I'll go down this road.

0:41:27 - Harry Duran

Yeah, he's working new material, then probably.

0:41:29 - Mark Bishop

Yeah, yeah, very good, but it's an art. There's no doubt about it. And I've noticed another thing about the US Harry every Tonight Show host or what have you was a comedian.

0:41:39 - Harry Duran

Oh yeah, that's right.

0:41:40 - Mark Bishop

Beforehand. It's like the producers go out and only look for comedians and these clubs.

0:41:45 - Harry Duran

They look for personalities yeah.

0:41:47 - Mark Bishop

Before they'll give you a chance to host a show right or something else. So, yeah, interesting. But what have been some of your goals? I mean, have you achieved everything you want to do, basically?

0:41:58 - Harry Duran

No, I think I'm always striving to improve myself and my business and my shows, just learning new things. I'm trying to learn more about passive investing Just I don't want to be working a job forever. I want to see if there's opportunities to, whether it's real estate or stuff that's brand new to me. I've never, you know, I've been watching courses and just learning, because acquiring, you know, this idea of building wealth has been fascinating for me, and how most people see it as something that's only available to the rich, but they got that way because they educated themselves on how to understand the tax code better or how to make investments.

That sort of like provide passive income, and so it's been interesting for me to try to sort of dabble in that world a little bit, and I'm out of my comfort zone when I do that, but I realize that sometimes that's how, like a podcasting, I was out of my comfort zone in 2014. So I think, in terms of like, this idea of building wealth has been important because it's something that I had to learn on my own. I didn't. I'm not from a wealthy family and it's interesting how people know me either, right, who get to that point. You know there's things that they do and when you read these books about how the rich stay rich and you know, sometimes it's important to kind of like learn the rules of the game, and so I'm out super early days. So if you see me start another podcast around passive income, then that's probably a good idea.

0:43:19 - Mark Bishop

That's a very important point you brought up, because if there's people listening that want to think they want to start a show and do all the rest of it, see, my mistake was well, not a mistake, but I sort of fell into just doing business interviews, okay, and talking to executives and promoting companies and promoting businesses per se from down that angle right, I never really, until I started nothing like a good book, there wasn't anything that I wanted to do from a point of view of what am I interested in?

What do I really want to talk about? Yeah you know what sort of show could I really do? Because it's very different from doing that, and that's why I want to do these other shows that I've written. But I find the one thing that I find that is very detrimental to me and maybe you'll listen this can take a listen out of this. I don't think I'm Robinson Crusoe in doing this, but I tend to get what do you call a not shiny object like you. I am trying to learn other things.

Yeah, passive investment and you know, some of it's for me, some of it's not. You buy these things in real estate, this and that there's so many people pushing so much stuff. And then there's the newsletters, as a name for it. Someone told me the other day, but I forget, it's about all these dudes that are in giving you the right you know, ticker to invest in. And you get the letters you got to pay them 49 bucks, and then it's 9 79 and you don't know who to believe anymore.

0:44:42 - Harry Duran

You know certain who the most important skill anyone can learn is discernment and being able to. It's a hard one, because you're basically learning how to figure out what's BS and what's not, and so it's something that you know being able to look at things and with a Curious eye, but also a discerning eye and ear, to say is this person foolish, it or is it? Are they really teaching me? Do they have proof? Can I look at something that they've done? Does it sound too good to be true? And usually what it is. But definitely.

Going to be learning more about that and probably my listeners will be hearing more about this. But as we wrap up, I've just a couple more questions that I like to ask. What is something you've changed your mind about recently?

0:45:25 - Mark Bishop

What is something I've changed my mind about? I tend to wonder a little bit. I get caught.

The thing wrong with working from home or on your own is you've got no one to keep Balances, checks and balances sure, and I find myself unfortunately getting sucked in with too many emails and I'm trying to learn and I'm always watching, I'm always open-minded this and that, this and that, but all of a sudden I go from 200 a day to 300 a day and all of a sudden, you know, if I buy something, well, there's another 300 come in from the same sort of related. Oh, but we don't sell your information, we don't give it away to anybody third party and they will hack and you get. And I find myself going through all my emails and it's lunchtime, you don't get anything done. And that's the biggest thing for me is I've got to learn to turn off, get away from my subscribe.

Get back out in the street. 112 degree heat. Go knock on some doors, that'll change it.

0:46:30 - Harry Duran

What is the most misunderstood thing about you?

0:46:33 - Mark Bishop

Well, I'm a Pisces, I am the giver and I do anything for anybody, but I can come across terribly hard when it comes to business and Because I care so much about the person who's paying me not to let them down and to make sure they're successful, or to make sure the client and gets the results he expects, you know, or to make sure that he gets the product sold that he really wanted to do.

Yeah, so from a podcasting point of view or a teaching point of view for me, I can be, you know, seen as too hard and misunderstood what my goal is for them, you know. Yeah. So I now say at the very beginning, to be very honest with you, you sure you want to work with me Because you know, see that acts on the wall.

0:47:27 - Harry Duran

Well, I think it's a whip over there. There's people to know what they're signing up for, but I think the listeners have gotten a feel for your personality because it definitely shines through In this conversation and they know you know, I get the sense that when people first meet you, if they don't know anything about you, you might come off as a bit gruff. But I think people who over time have gotten to hear you know how you approach life and because of your life experiences, I think that's when they start to resonate you and that's when they start to feel that You're either for them or you're not for them, and they can quickly figure that out. And I appreciate you sharing your stories on the show today.

0:48:00 - Mark Bishop

I'm honored to. I've been a fan of podcast junkies and your other things that you do, and you for a long, long time, so I've been honored. Thank you so much.

0:48:09 - Harry Duran

Yeah, and I'm glad you finally made this happen and, I think, at the right place, right time. I think we've been in touch for several years and it's been interesting to kind of just stay in touch, and when you reached out I thought the best way to catch up is on the show. So I appreciate you coming on and sharing your very, very interesting journey, which is going to be inspiring as well.

0:48:25 - Mark Bishop

So that's good. I hope so, harry is life's too short, otherwise mate. Yeah you go look after them. Chokes, mate, If you got llamas yet you gotta get llamas to llamas.

0:48:35 - Harry Duran

Yeah, where's the best place for folks to connect with you and learn more about what you're working on?

0:48:40 - Mark Bishop

Just go to mark bishop media dot com. Okay, and we'll go Mark Bishop media dot com. That's Mark with a K2.

0:48:48 - Harry Duran

Okay, and we'll make sure those links are in the show notes. Uh, and we'll get that all squared away as well. So I appreciate your time again, mark.

0:48:55 - Mark Bishop

I got it. Thank you so much. Bye-bye Harry, take care.

0:48:57 - Harry Duran

It's a.