316 JJ Flizanes - Unleashing Your Frequency and Walking Your Authentic Path

You're JJ. Flizanes, creator of the Empowering Minds network. Thank you so much for joining me on Podcast Junkies.

Thanks, Harry, for having me.

This is a podcast about podcasting. I've been doing this since 2014, and the reason I did it is to let people know about the journeys of folks behind the mic and also to let people know that it's not always as glamorous as people see from the polished versions that end up on the shows. And we had a challenging technical difficulties with our logging in and connecting. So thank you for being patient with me.

Yeah, it happens. And in fact, I'll even just ask you on air, am I coming through my correct mic? Since this is okay, great. Because when that happens, I've done that. Holy cow. When I first started, I'm on at the time, Skype, because I started my podcast in 2014 also, and a lot of us use Skype. And I remember your MIC's plugged in, and you're talking away, and you're talking into the mic, and you think you're coming through the mic. Then you listen back and you're thinking, that doesn't sound like I'm coming through my mic. So all the things that we learn along the way.

But you've been as public speaker for a long time, and I'm curious, just even going far back, if you think about your family dynamic, would anyone in your family be surprised that this has kind of been your career path in terms of who you were as a child?

No. I mean, nobody still knows what a podcast is, but if it's a place for me to talk, then yes, they're not surprised.

Yeah. Would you consider yourself an extrovert?

Oh, I really hate those words. I don't like them because I think some people interpret them to mean someone who likes to share who they are with anyone who will listen and someone who doesn't want to share with anyone who listens. And I think it's really about that introverts are more I think technically it's that introverts don't get drained more by being around people, and extroverts get energy.

From being around people.

But I think most people interpret it as, I'm an introvert, therefore I can't or I won't do blah, blah, blah. And I hear it as that people just aren't confident. Like, the people that consider themselves introverts kind of use that as an excuse to hide that they're actually not confident. And that's not a judgment, by the way. That's an analysis in years of looking at that kind of stuff. And it is kind of the work that I do. So that doesn't mean to be mean for those of you that like and Allison, actually, our friend Allison would say she's an introvert and she is confident, but she does need time away from people. But so do I. And then there's like, I want to be around the right frequencies. I want to be around sort of like minded people. Not that I can't be around other people that aren't, but it's sort of a gamble of there's only so much time in the day, and where you spend your energy and who you are with affects you and either adds to you or doesn't. And so I like to be with energies that add to my life, or I'd rather be alone. So I don't know. I guess most people would say I'm probably an extrovert, but I don't feed off of other people's energy to give me energy. In fact, quite the other way around, more people want to take my energy.

So I have to be careful sometimes when because I will naturally I have so much of it that I naturally sort of infuse it into what I do, which naturally sort of someone without energy kind of takes it. As long as I'm good about balancing how I give myself energy, it won't deplete me. But I am not interested in giving energy to those that can't receive it.

Yes, I think some people refer to them as energy vampires, where people that there are certain people that are in the room, whether they're aware of it or not, are continuously sucking energy out of the room or sucking energy out of the person that they're with. And I think it's until someone calls it out to them that they're aware of that behavior, I think they don't realize they're doing it, but that they clearly have an effect on people. And as far as just, like, introvert extrovert, I'm also not a fan of those labels. I think what I've found over the years, I used to think I was super extroverted, but then I would realize I'd be in situations like conferences, and I'd be like, on. Like Allison is on because we've hung out in conferences together, and she's the one organizing the karaoke party, right?

Yeah, that's her job.

But it's interesting that when that's done and I'm back home and I'm just like I noticed it. Like, I'm like, whoa, I need to go back in my office and just not interact with people because it feels like it's on for situationally extroverted or whatever the inverse of that is. But I think having the awareness and being self aware to know that that's happening comes over time. And I'm wondering for you you mentioned frequency. You mentioned recognizing people's energy. Do you know how that process came alive for you and when you started to realize that that was an important aspect to consider in your interactions with other people?

Well, 2002, okay, 2002, I was introduced to Abraham, and I was driving all around California and learned about Law of Attraction and heard that you're the creator of your own reality. And that kind of stopped me dead on my tracks in a good way, because I heard which a lot of people don't hear. They hear the opposite. They hear you're the creator of your own reality, therefore you're responsible and you're to blame and something's wrong with you because of the life that you've created. And I heard it as well, if I don't like something, I get to change it. So if I'm the creator, cool, I get to change it. And that's empowering to me. So that was the start of my journey in Law of Attraction quantum physics. And then through the years of learning it sort of intellectually and mentally and working on embodying it and working on integrating it and having a situation that happened with my now ex husband that actually demonstrated frequency to me in a way that I had never seen before. It became so clear and I thought, cool, I really get this on a whole nother level. So for me, again, that and I've actually been wanting to do a podcast episode for years on introvert extrovert because again, I think a lot of people use it as an excuse to not do something sure or to do something or it's a judgment or a label. And I'd love to just sort of break that down in my own exploration of it. Not because I think I know what it is. I just think that I've interpreted it differently with people. So to me, ultimately, regardless of what it is, it's about frequency.

So when I'm around like minded frequencies or frequencies of people forget if we have the same opinions of things, if we're in the same frequency emotionally, then it feels really easy and it feels really symbiotic and there's no it's just easy. And then if you're with people who and I would define it more as to me, it's sort of two sides of the coin of how you can be in life. Either you look at life as a victim that things just happen and there's no reason. And that's not to say you choose that you just might believe that things happen randomly and nothing created it. Or on the flip side, you could choose to take the other side to say that everything has a purpose. And if everything has a purpose, then you can attract it or call it in. Then there's something to do about that. And so for me, I think that's like the first out of the gate frequency and belief system that I look for or that I feel for is when someone isn't opportunity or possibility or emotionally responsible. Why did this happen to me? How did I create this? Why do I feel this way? Why do I react that way? That's to me a huge way of assessing what kind of energy is going to be shared or where I'm going to go moving forward with somebody because the belief systems will be different and that's okay. I can respect somebody else's different belief system as being different than mine. I just won't engage at a level because I'm looking for where do we connect?

Where can we have a conversation that will flow versus I don't want to argue or defend or try to convince anybody to believe something different.

I'm a huge fan of Abraham's teachings as well, and I think we all come into these worlds of what I call coming out of the spiritual closet. For me personally, I mean, Buddhism started in 97, 98, and then just the whole New Age movement, the dolphin prophecy, seat of the soul, all the conversations with God, books, and then it just starts unraveling, unraveling, and it's just like ancient civilizations, egypt, star seeds, light workers. It literally just becomes like these metaphysical rabbit holes. And I think sometimes it's easy to get lost on them and sometimes it's easy to just observe them at the superficial level because for a lot of people, Law of Attraction led to the Secret. And we saw how that sort of panned out and how to kind of people just like, tried it at the superficial level and then it got a bad name and it sort of gave this idea of Law of Attraction, which is only just one of the universal laws, depending which of the teachings you ascribed to. Is it twelve universal laws, and Law of Attraction is like one aspect of one teaching. What do you think people get wrong or misinterpret about Law of Attraction or and or Abraham when they're first introduced to these teachings?

Well, I won't not won't defend or talk about the channeling and Esther and Abraham. I'll just address the Law of Attraction sort of misbelief or manifestation. And as you mentioned, people watch The Secret, and we saw it. I put a picture up on my wall on a vision board. I say that I want a million dollars, and I didn't get it, so therefore it doesn't work. And the whole point of frequency is that people don't understand that they emit a vibration or frequency all day long, every day. But most people are looking at the action. I just released a podcast episode this week. It was a bonus episode. It was a solo show about the name of it was called The Energy Underneath. And it's looking at that's exactly kind of what it is. It's about the frequency and the energy behind or underneath the action that you're choosing to do. Action is important, but we look at action and we make decisions like someone putting on a vision board, I want this car. I want this person. And it's like, okay, but what are you activating?

It's like the word. I take a stance with the word, and this is a fine tuning of frequency that most people won't care to do. But the difference between gratitude and appreciation, I'm like an anti gratitude person when it comes using that word, because what I feel when many people say, I have gratitude or I'm grateful, is the story about why, like, the contrast of where they came from. Here's what it normally sounds like, to me, I'm grateful that I have money in my bank account. Why? Because two months ago, I was poor. And what ends up happening is, even though they don't say that because that energy was so strong that that gets pulled into that frequency, gets activated. When I talk about what I'm grateful for, the dominant energy isn't what I'm grateful for. It's why I'm grateful. Because where I came from, that makes sense.

Yeah.

So the energy underneath and it's not everybody, but a lot of people, it's like the word gratitude has been used to almost shame you in a way. Or not shame you, shame you out of like there's this underlying context of gratitude. Oh, you should have gratitude because look at all the starving people in the world who don't have what you have. I just feel like that's such a strong should underneath that word. But when you say, I appreciate, it's cleaner. There's no attachment, there's no story. It's simple. I appreciate my water bottle. And actually, that story is really fun. That came from something like, to me, the energy is cleaner. So that's the subtle difference. But it isn't a subtle difference in how it works in your life. If every time we say a word or take an action that we look at as positive, but what's fueling it is anxiety, what's fueling it is regret, what's fueling it is shame, then that's the frequency that's being activated. Not the words, it's the energy. So I think people think that saying Affirmations or putting up a vision board is somehow going to magically do the work of changing your frequency.

And your frequency is your emotions. And 88% of your emotions come from your subconscious. And most of that's crappy, most of that's not good. I've been doing personal development work. That's what I do with people. I'm kind of the anti therapist in ways not that again, if you have a great therapist, yay for you. But I did a talk called The Three Reasons Why Talk Therapy Is Ineffective. And I go through sort of the reasons why, but it's looking at, again, how we apply. Talking about stories or talking about if you don't address that conscious mind piece is important. That 12% of your conscious mind is definitely very important. The subconscious is also very important. And at the end of the day, you have to know that they both exist and how to work with both of them. And most people don't realize that if they have a scarcity of money or love or time, and that's running their show, but they're doing Affirmations, they're putting up those pictures, they're wondering why there's a disconnect. And the disconnect is because you don't understand the energy underneath, what fuels your choices and why you're doing what you're doing. And the belief that that's created from and a lot of it is going to be negative, and it's not because we want to be negative it's because we have core wounds, and that's just what happens.

And most of life is some kind of reaction to a wound, and we don't even know it until we start to look at it.

I think what's interesting about the affirmations, a lot of times what you hear is a lot of people start with what they don't want, and there's an energy behind that. So if you want I want to be out of debt. There's debt in that affirmation. So you're reaffirming it sort of like they tell you, okay, don't think about a pink elephant.

Exactly.

How can I not think about a pink elephant now?

Right.

That's interesting. And I think this is not something that's taught, and I think what's interesting about this world of whatever you want to call it spirituality, metaphysics, quantum physics, frequency it feels like a lot of this is learned from other people who are learning it themselves. What you're learning from that teacher is their interpretation of how it's been helpful for them and how they've interpreted the words and what it did or did not do for them. And you're getting that coloring. So where does one go to sort of get what you would call the pure message? Is that going within? Is that what you think feel like might happen with something like meditation or I'm just curious about your thoughts about how we can cultivate a practice of discernment, which I think is really important. Right, because you see all these different messages from all these different teachers at all these different levels, but you have to be able to it's almost like the discerning muscle is one of the most important ones to figure out what's the BS? What's the super woo, what's the science? All these things that are sort of happening if you are doing the work.

Well, the word is resonance. Now, resonance doesn't mean that you're going to resonate with someone. And if you both have the same scarcity, that doesn't mean you're necessarily going to overcome that scarcity if that person resonates in that way. But it is someone that you would listen to. It's someone that you would trust, and there's still value to be had if they're three steps ahead of you or if they've been able to do things you haven't done. What happens, I think, is when you reach too far out of your comfort zone and you are not aware of the difference between your beliefs and someone else's, it's hard to connect, it's hard to experience that I see myself in you because you're so different from who I am right now. I think as humans, when we expand, we don't make huge leaps. We make small steps in a direction, and so it's important to find somebody that you resonate with. What's really funny I'm glad you know, Abraham, because obviously it's a different year, but Esther and I share the same birthday, and after I studied it for so long, I feel very confident to deliver an Abraham response to just about any question. But I also had to call BS on myself around 2009. So let's say I was studying a lot of attraction every day, hours a day, listening and listening, because I drove a lot for clients, and so I constantly was listening. I would listen to the same track 100 times if I didn't get it, because as you start to pick pieces out of it, you can go back and listen to it and hear different things because you're in a new frequency now and you can receive different information. And so I never looked at it as like, oh, I've already heard that. I would just keep playing to see what else I could pick out. And again, to me, it's the resonance.

It resonated. When I heard for the first time, you are the creator of your own reality. Now, again, she's a PISCES, and I'm a PISCES. And when I hear like Bruce Lipton's been on my show several times, biology of Belief, I joke with him about the story. When I learned about his book, I didn't read it, nor did I buy it for a long time because I didn't need to, because it resonated. I didn't need to be explained or convinced that the body will respond, like the biology will respond to your beliefs and your emotion. I already knew this. Again, that's the intuition part, that's the spiritual resonance and intuition and whatever you want to call it that I think we have to trust that we're going to resonate with somebody for a reason. And it may be for a short time, and it may be forever, and sometimes you're going to outgrow that person. I have outgrown so many teachers because I am so fast, and that doesn't mean that there aren't people that are faster than me and I'm looking for them, not because there's anything. I go out and I get information to answer questions that I have. And when I answer those questions and they feel and I feel a resonance of a truth because I have many sadges also. So my truth seeking part is so strong. But then when I kind of feel like I have figured out what makes sense to me as my truth, I'm not going after other information. Like, I've never done a show in Enneagram.

I've never done a show on human design. I don't need to go I haven't done even though I'm a huge astrology, I haven't done Vedic because I don't need to because I don't need to go down another rabbit hole. I have my answers in these different platforms and tools that I currently use. So when choosing someone that you want to learn from, I would just look at, do they embody where you want to go? I've left a lot of teachers because of money. Let's say. Let's go back in time to when I started my business till about 2008, maybe even before that. And I started my business around 2001. So six to seven years I followed entrepreneurs because I needed to make money. So what was my focus? Money. But then I would see these people who made a lot of money or they thought they made a lot of money and they had terrible relationships or they had terrible health or they didn't really have good friendships or strong family ties. And I just said, that's not right, I don't want to trade one for the other. And it's an actually funny journey because as I continued down the path, I was doing health and fitness and then emotion and I waited a really long time to sort of become a business coach, but I couldn't find anybody doing what I wanted. I wanted someone to show up being all the things, having it all work together using law of attraction and health and fitness and relationships and money.

I didn't want to trade one for the other. They all to me are equally important. They all have to work together. And I couldn't find it, so I had to step into it and I'm like, okay, well, I don't see anybody else doing this, so I'm going to do it. And here I'm still doing it because again, in fact, I've even gotten to a place in my own Mastermind this year that I said for next year that I will no longer have anyone apply or accept anyone who hasn't done the emotional work with me first. And that's going to reduce the amount of people that I can sell to dramatically. It might kill me, it might wreck my business, but I don't care because my integrity is if you don't understand how your emotions affect your ability to attract business and money, then we are not having a conversation. Because what may be right for you as a business owner is to look at your core wounds to heal those. So you can choose a sustainable business that is in integrity with who you are, that honors your zone of genius and doesn't make you choose health or money over health of relationships. I think to answer your question, go back. You have to resonate with the person. You have to see in them something that you think they've done well and something that you'd like to emulate. And if they're not a model in all the ways that you want and maybe you only get like one little thing from them, then go get that thing from them and then go find somebody else to get more stuff from.

Yeah, it's what I hear a lot, which I've taken to heart. This idea of take what resonates and discard the rest in all the teachings and obviously some of that to your point, could be like a 0.5% of this one message and the rest is just like, whoa, I just can't relate to any of that. But not throwing the baby out with the bathwater and just seeing there's not one person that has the answer for everything that you need or for what ails you in life. I'm wondering for you throughout this journey, even to present day, can you think of certain teachers that were shifts for you in terms of helping you to up level to get you to the next platform?

Absolutely. Well, I mean, I'm going to say Abraham is always to me, Abraham is like the source, literally. There is no other author. And I love Wayne Dyer and when he was here, but a lot of authors have basically taken Law of Attraction and put in their own words, and that's great. And I don't necessarily resonate with all of them. I just go back to the source started with Abraham. I don't need the rest of your interpretation unless there's something I don't understand, which currently that doesn't exist. There is no subject matter that I do not think I understand from a Law of Attraction viewpoint coming out of Esther Hicks mouth, channeling Abraham. With that said, Abraham is always there and is like the foundation for me past that. Michael Beckwith. I love Reverend Michael. He's been on the show, too. I was a member of Agape. I used to go often. And again, if we look at where I was back in 2008 versus where I am now, there was a pivotal moment in my life and in my business and my relationship where I felt like he was the right message at the time.

And that even though and then he kind of moved forward and we're all still growing and expanding, right there's no one who's not whoever's teaching and leading is still themselves growing and expanding. So that kind of came in and out and at some point I really stopped going to Agape for any other reason other than the music and the community. Because while I love Michael, I was like, okay, there's nothing that's moving me into the next level. That was always Abraham. But Wayne Dyer for sure has been a huge influence. And I'm just looking at all my books. Like I said, bruce lipton and dr. Sheree carter scott. Love her. I've even coached with her. She was one of my very first her book, If Life Is a Game, These Are the Rules, was definitely a life changer for me. That was back in like 19 97, 98 then, if love is a game, These are the rules. Like, I was all in to her work and even still today, I've had her on the show three times and she and I have a relationship. And again, I reach out for coaching from her when it's about certain specific things. But yeah, I look for at this point, I've been so high speed, but not in a frantic way, just in a consumption way, like just really curious and interested and I can absorb a lot so I've just taken on but that was a phase, and again, a phase of like, discovery.

And now I'm sort of slowed down into a phase of just living. And then when a teacher appears or when an issue or contrast happens for me, then I just sort of allow the next level of so it's not necessarily a person or a way of thinking. It's just I allow myself to invite in what's the next step for me? And sometimes it's slowing down and being quiet and going in this direction. I'm doing tantra now. It's the phase. It's the phase of slowing down. But I do think everyone will outgrow, although I know fans of mine have definitely some have outgrown me, or some have not grown at the speed, so they kind of fell off. But I do have a lot of listeners who've been with me since the beginning, and I think they've been with me because I'm on a journey and they're on the journey with me, and they're the ones that want to keep growing, and we kind of grow together, which is really fun to have a community that can do that.

I want to recognize that we sort of just jumped into this space. And I'm always conscious of the fact there's a listener involved in these conversations as well. So for the listener who is new to this world and may not have any idea who the heck we're talking about when it comes to Abraham, but for the layperson, how do you describe and tell the story about who Abraham is and its impact it's had on you, their impact on you?

Well, depending on, again, how boiled down we can make this if I'm talking to recognizing that if someone's an atheist, this is not a conversation that we're going to have.

We lost them probably ten minutes ago.

All right, you're done. And that's fine. If you're agnostic or you believe in God, there's the understanding that we all are nonphysical beings as well as physical. And how I describe that normally is I say so. You see the sun in the sky, and the sun has sunbeams, and the sun in this metaphor would be all non, non physical energy. And God or source and the sunbeams are us. Someone that's decided to be physically focused at the same time as part of our existence is still non physically focused. It's like when you have someone that dies, you're at a funeral or you see the body. Most of us intuitively, even if you don't say anything about it, can feel that that person, their essence, their soul is no longer in that carcass, in that body. So you know that that's actually not who we really are in this physical form. That our essence, our spirit sort of left the body. So where does it go? When we look at and you can say it's angels or God or people who've crossed over, whatever you. Want to say. Abraham is a collection of nonphysical energy.

No one necessarily specific, not somebody in the past named Abraham, who Esther Hicks over time, through working with other nonphysical energies and being her husband Jerry Hicks, who has passed on, who was the one who was curious, he was the one asking these questions. And she, as the wife, followed along. And because she was more kind of open and neutral and didn't have any resistance, she was the one who could meditate more easily and then sort of intuitively get these these downloads and this channeling and this energy that wanted to come through her. So, I mean, at this point, what's, it 35 years? 30, 35 years ago, esther Hicks started to channel and things would come out of her mouth that wasn't her. And we look at it as non physical energy. They call themselves Abraham, but it's undefined. Like, just think of air. And again, whether you believe that or not, because maybe your logical brain says, well, I don't believe in past lives or I don't believe in whatever, that's fine. But when I usually share it with someone who doesn't know, there's still a resonance. Like, you may not be able to explain it, but there are sometimes where certain things are said that hit you in a way where your body goes, this makes sense to me. I don't necessarily believe this story, but this message is being received by my cells because I feel my body receiving it. So again, like I said, whether it's your pastor or your priest or a song or the birds or the mountains or the ocean, there's always sort of this idea of nonphysical energy, something bigger than us, that exists as a breath in the world, in the universe. And so that's what Abraham Hicks is, and that's how it kind of works. But again, I always look at it as I'll send it to people without asking.

I mean, if they're in my community, they know, because it's not about I need you to believe anything about the story I just told. It's more of, listen to this message. Does it resonate with you? Do you get anything from it? And if you do, it doesn't really matter what the story is. It doesn't matter where it comes from.

Right, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Did I see that you started your training career, fitness training in New York?

I did, yes. In New York. Actually, Syracuse. New York was where I started in a gym. And then I came to New York City, and I got certified in New York City and worked in the vertical clubs and did personal training in New York City. And then I moved from New York City to La. And then I continued my personal training until probably COVID. So I'm going to say COVID helped me make a real transition and to sort of retire as a personal trainer and to take full on this emotional work that I've been doing with people. And although now I'm doing a new program where I feel like I'm going to step back into the role of trainer, but with a much different focus. Instead of food and exercise, it's how you rewrite your core wound patterns. It's more of that emotional trainer who's keeping you accountable to do the hard things that you don't want to do, but that you do want to do because you want to heal this stuff. Right? So it's funny because it's like, oh, it's all so connected and, like, full circle. I'm back. I'm like, oh, I kind of feel like a trainer again.

That's what I'm doing. But this time it's deeper, which is always kind of where I wanted to go.

I grew up just outside New York City. In Yonkers, New York? I've lived in New York City. I've been to the Equinox Gyms there, so I'm very familiar with that world. I live in Minneapolis now, and I've lived in La for four years, too, so I've done both coasts. But I think my heart home is New York, so it's always anytime I see a connection to New York and I actually went to Syracuse for a year and a half, so there's a connection there.

There we go. Yeah, full circle. Yeah. I love New York.

When you think about the transformation that you can see in people as a trainer, is that why you got into it? And what is it about helping people in that capacity that lit you up during the time you were doing that?

I have always cared about my health and the way that I looked in my body. But not in a disproportionate well, yes, in a disproportionate way when you're a teenager, of course, because I also had hips and boobs before anybody else, so that felt weird, and I felt awkward and unattractive and working through that kind of shame and stuff. And then when I went to the gym in Syracuse and saw the bodies and the bodybuilders, and it wasn't bodybuilders, it was personal trainers. And I was a dancer since I was three. I had very strong, muscular legs. I still do to this day. But I had this at the time, skinny, scrawny upper body. Like, it looked really unbalanced. So when I saw the trainers, I thought, Well, I want to do that. And then, as I learned a little bit to get certified and I really stress learn a little bit, your personal trainers aren't scientists because the tests are not that intricate. And even if they are, they're very specifically designed. And not to actually get them to think independently of science, but in prescriptive ways that don't get them sued. Again, shout out to anybody who's a trainer that is learning science. But as you probably know, I mean, I could pass a test, and I didn't know how to use any of the equipment in the gym. Okay?

That was my experience. And yes, this is a long time ago, but for me it started surface, but it was also because I was singing and dancing at three and very in the PISCES and creative and right brain. Part of me. There was a part of me that didn't think I was smart because I didn't excel. I didn't get straight A's, but I was always on the honor roll or like low honor roll, got A's and B's and B pluses and stuff. But like, science and math was sort of like the thing. If you were really smart, you're really good at science and math, and none of it ever stuck. And I just didn't like it. So I took all English courses my senior year of high school. I didn't want to take science and math because I didn't like it. So now fast forward. I go through college, and now I'm learning about personal training. And at some point somebody quizzed me on things of the body that I didn't know. And then I went to learn it. And when I started to learn the science of the body, now it made sense to me because my brain works mechanically.

When I could physically see the science and how it played out and how it worked, it opened up a part of my left brain that I didn't even know I had. And so it gave me a great sense of confidence, of like, wow, I'm smart. Like, I understand this stuff. Like, it changed my perception of who I was going down. So then I got really into science. Like, I got really into the science. But then let's pull in that right brain that PISCES with a lot of sad curiosity. And I'm always asking why? Why do I feel this way? Why did I react this way? Why did I do this? So put that in the personal training world and, well, why are we doing it? Why are we doing it this way? Why do I give you this plan and you don't do it? Any idiot sorry, at some point has to ask the question, this isn't about your fitness routine or your diet.

This is about the emotions of the reason why you take care of yourself or you don't. So that begs the question, let's learn a little bit more about this stuff and psychology and blah, blah, blah. So it's been a deeper dive every time, like pulling another layer back, pulling another layer back and then looking at back pain and how back pain is really mostly emotional and looking at that anyway. It's the layers and the curiosity and asking questions always to problem solve. I'm a pretty good problem solver, and if I don't know the answer to the question and I can't solve the problem, I'll go learn something new and try again. I'm not going to give up because I want to understand, because it's presenting a new problem that I don't have a tool for. I joke that both as a personal trainer and as a coach, as an empowerment strategist, I have the largest toolbox of anybody I know, and I just keep putting tools in it when I find a new thing that gives me a new insight to an answer I didn't have before, of a way to look at something. So that's as a personal trainer, I've always just been curious, and it opened up parts of me, and it's still to this day, I still keep learning. I still love finding and fine tuning what I'm doing and then learning something new and creating something new to solve a problem somebody has that hasn't solved yet.

Yeah. So it's interesting because with these conversations, I'm like, well, which one of these rabbit holes do we want to go down? But I do want to obviously be remiss if we didn't talk about podcast. Right. This is a show about podcasting. So I'm curious when they came on your radar, when you started to hear about them, maybe even just started listening to them.

I had gone to a book writing conference in San Francisco in March of 2014.

Okay.

And prior to that, it's funny because I lived in La. And I now live in Ohio. And I had come up here, there was like a psychic up here that we would work with occasionally, and she was fun just to come and have a reading. And I remember coming up once and having a reading with her in person, and I said to her, I feel like a backed up hose. Like, I have so much creative energy, I have so many things I want to share, and I have nowhere to put it because my clients at the time don't care about any of this coaching stuff. They don't care about the emotions. They don't care. They want the diet, the exercise, the accountability. They want to be blapped in the face. They want to be shamed. They don't want to dig or uncover their stuff.

Yeah, do the work.

Right. So I don't know where to put it. And writing, even though I've written three books now, but writing is so slow and painful, and again, it didn't facilitate that energy of talking and presenting and just me being my natural high energy, that's not coming from anxiety, that's not coming from like it's just this is my natural sort of frequency. I mean, I did have coffee today, but that never affects me. That doesn't change anything about my energy. So I went to this conference and somebody had gotten up on stage and talked about him starting his podcast and how it went. He went two years without making any money, and then he did it as a five day week podcast. And then he made a subscription. Itunes featured him. They got all these subscribers and he made a subscription. And then we did the math. And I was like, whoa. I was like, okay. So I used him as that. And I said, okay, I could do this two years without making any money because I also have so much content, and I'm a content machine.

I pitch me every day. And they act as if like, oh, don't you need a guest? I'm like, no, I don't need guests because I have so much freaking content. Like, I don't need guests. I mean, I have guests and I have guests that come on repeatedly, but is it also very focused. So I knew that I needed to archive a lot of things I was talking about. And I also did a video part. Video podcast, like two days a week, or video, like cooking and exercises. So for me, because I love efficiency, my podcasting for me was a way to get the teachings I wanted to get down so that I didn't have to repeat myself every time I had a new client. Here, go listen to this. Here, go do this exercise. And it's a way for me to work with people remotely with exercise. Go watch this video. Watch these three videos. And here's what we're going to do.

Makes sense.

So that's how my journey started back in 2014. I put all my content on one brand, video and audio. I knew nothing about podcast. I had not listened to a podcast. I did not know how it worked. I hired a friend of mine who I grew up with who had a really good Twitter following. Like, I say it now, and I laugh because I'm like, oh, she has a lot of okay, so she's a huge Twitter following. She doesn't have a podcast, but you're going to have her help you with podcasting. That's smart. JJ anyway, so she didn't know what she didn't know to tell me. Don't do don't use the biggest file possible on your video. It's going to cost you the maximum amount you could pay every month. Just dumb, stupid stuff I had to learn the hard way.

So right now, if I'm looking, I don't know if they're all active. But at last count, it looks like 13 shows. Is that about right?

14, because there's a show and one of them is in process right now of launching. So coming empowered isn't out yet. The icon is there. It's ready, but we're not ready to launch it yet. And then there's another show on there that I don't own. I'm a co host on, but I Don't own called something to Whine about. So I guess it's 14. And it's funny that you're counting because someone asked me, how many do you have? I'm like, I don't know. I don't count them anymore. I don't know how many I have. Because there's couple up there that aren't present. Like, if you type in my name on Podcast Search, there'll be three more that come up that I don't have on that on my website, because one is like an archive show. JLP did archive shows, but now you can keep them all in the same that's when itunes more than 300. So I started making an archive show, and then I stopped.

I repurposed video to a video when I repurposed anyway. So I have three others that live out there in the world, but they're not listed because why just go to the ones I have?

I think it's just fascinating. And we're going to get into the specifics of how you even find time and the energy to do them all, but just to get a taste of the mind of JJ, I'm going to read out some of these for the benefit of folks. Smart exercise. Get results and protect your joints. Easy paleo, gluten and dairy free cooking. Health and wealth. Becoming empowered releasing the guidance within taste. The Ohio Experience sales training for Podcasters. Something to whine about love, that one. Spirit, purpose and energy. Fit to Love women, men and relationships. Nutrition and alternative medicine and empower you. So these I imagine all these things are lighting you up or you have an interest in them at some point in time, and you feel like this kinked up hose, I think was the analogy you used. But is that just a fair reflection of what you're passionate about at any given point in time and you're essentially just leveraging the podcast for getting those ideas out into the world?

Yes. And this is for all the podcasters out there who I taught this to, Dr. William Davis, who wrote Wheat Belly, who's changed his brand three times because he went from the Wheat Belly brand to undoctored to now Dr. Davis Infinite Health to put all his brands under. And he's got a podcast called Defiant Health. And so I explained what I did, and most people will look at me like, you're nuts and I don't understand what you're doing. But he was like, you're brilliant. I'm like, thank you for understanding me. When you have a product that's good or whatever, doesn't matter if it's good or not. When you have a product you want to get out into the world and you have a package, that package will be attractive to a certain kind of person. It won't be attractive to everybody. So if you take the product and create a couple of different packages for the same product, you're going to pull in different kinds of people. So ultimately, my first podcast, Fit to Love, was a six day week show. It was video. Two days of video and four days of audio.

Usually during the week, I'd have two solo shows and two interviews.

Okay.

And it wasn't that I published six every week. I was averaging four for sure. Sometimes six, sometimes five. And I started it in September of 2014, and I did about 18 months, 350 episodes in 18 months. And my brain said, I'm going to test my content. That's why I'm going to do these different days of the week that all had different kinds of content on them. But again, I didn't know what I didn't know. And honestly, analytics has definitely been one of my weakest points. Always in business, always. I mean, I'm better at it now, but I wasn't good at all. I didn't ask the question, how will I know? I just thought somehow I would know that I could track on the same podcast what people like or don't like. Again, didn't know what I didn't know. I was not a podcast listener. I'm still not a podcast listener.

I mean, I kind of am, but not to house that. Everybody else is sometimes. So after that 18 months and 350 episodes, and again, like I said, I'm a content machine. And I was pumping out a lot of content, and I was doing three camera HD shoots for my videos. They weren't. Well, I didn't have a lav mic. That was the biggest, but I was doing it for peanuts with a crew. I mean, it was so I got blessed that I didn't have to do it by myself. So that made me really pump out a lot of video. But then when I realized, I don't know, I don't know what people are liking. I'm doing the exercise and nutrition and alternative medicine stuff for the current clients that I have. And the Freedom Friday day is my guilty pleasure of law, of attraction, intuition, all that stuff. And then I had a Psychology Day, and then a Relationship day, and those were more for me and things I really wanted to talk about. But I said, this is not working in terms of the test. I don't know where people want me to show up.

I don't know what they're most interested in, people that I don't talk to that aren't my current clients. So what I did was I took those six days a week and I made six new shows. Now, I didn't launch all six shows. I actually did five no, I did four. I did four shows. The smart exercise, the cooking show. The paleo gluten free cooking show. I did. Spirit, purpose. Energy. Oh, no, that's not true. I kept Fit to Love up there as its own show, and I did Spirit, Purpose and Energy, and women in relationships and nutritional alternative medicine. I made the content more. I was trying to fit all this under Fit to Love, and if you're still listening, hopefully you can get that. I'm very specific.

I'm not a generalist. I have very specific information. If you're going to use keywords, have very specific keywords. Movement Mondays wasn't just get out there and move. I'm actually a bio. I know biomechanics very well. I'm a scientist when it comes to the structure of the body, but you don't know that for me, calling it Movement Mondays under Fit to Love, you don't know that I'm talking about Law of Attraction on Fit to Love. So I was like, okay, nobody can find me.

Got it.

So I stuck spirit, purpose and energy out first because it was the easiest. I just repurposed what I already had on the Freedom Friday. So I launched with, like, 20 shows or 20 episodes on that podcast, and I did it so I could get it out of the way, because I had nothing to sell anybody. I had no lead magnets, I had no list, I had no products, I had nothing. So I just put it out with the world. That was October. End of October 2016.

Okay?

By middle of November, I had people writing to me saying, oh, my God, this is amazing. I want more. What do you have for me? And I was like, okay, I don't have anything. So time to create something. And it was such a blessing because it just saved it was well, first of all, it's love attraction. It's love attraction at its finest because the only thing I actually really wanted to talk about and then it created this co creation with people listening. It wasn't about what I thought they needed. I got to create what they wanted and what they wanted and what they needed, which was awesome. And I've been doing it ever since. And it was such a great way to have a business. Whereas before I'd see a problem, think I knew the solution wouldn't test it out. First, make this thing, try to sell this thing, and then nobody would buy it because I didn't ask them if they wanted it.

Yeah.

So that's why I have so many shows. That's why I started. So five of my podcasts currently have the same episodes. Now, if you go back to the very beginning of each of them, there will be like ten to 20 of them that will be different because I was just repurposing on the channel that it belonged to. But then as I started recording more, I thought, well, this could go on these two shows. Actually, this could go on these four shows. Why don't you put them on five shows? It's just a way for people. And it's amazing how I had someone join my membership, because one of those is a paid podcast. And I always ask people, how did you get here? And he told me my least downloaded show, and here he's paying me now, and he's in my membership. I'm like, really? It just goes to show, like, don't take your podcast down. You just don't know where someone's going to find you. You may have not very many numbers or people, but you have the right people who hear you and then take action.

It's amazing. So I keep them up because why not? People keep them. And sometimes it's just a filter from the lower ones into the bigger one. People, most of the time, come through another way and then end up all at the same one. Yeah, so that's partly why I have so many. Releasing the goddess within is a diary show.

Okay.

And sales training for podcasters came up because my partner is also a podcast production. He owns a production company and he's an amazing sales trainer. He comes from a sales training legacy. And I realize I'm a really good salesperson too. So together we started to teach sales training and definitely for podcast. And that was really fun. And we'll pick that back up again. It's not dead in the water, but yeah. So I love podcasting. I think there's no better way to connect with people in a real way. We're in their ears. This is an intimate and again, that resonance. I think that with podcasting, way more than video someone. And then podcast audiences, of course, are usually a little better educated, have attention span a little bit longer than those that watch YouTube because they're looking to be entertained. But when you dial into just listening and it's about the feeling when people connect with you and they like you and they trust you, it's because of the resonance that they feel from this very intimate platform that I adore and think is the best way to create an audience of superfans and a community that you can grow with you're here.

I think what's beautiful about the fact that you're emphasizing the resonance and the personal connection that happens with podcasting, it is such an intimate medium because they're putting those earbuds on and even just mic placement. Like, if I move the mic here, it's a complete difference than if I'm here. And now I'm like in your head, basically. And I always say there's three people in a podcast conversation, the host, the guest, and the listener. And I'm always remembering that there's someone on this journey with us now, maybe not in this moment that we're recording, but when it's published, they're doing their thing, they're living their life. And it is that just special connection because you paint the theater of the mind yourself and you get to sort of say what that looks like in your head, what this story is and all those stories you told about Abraham and spirituality and your whole podcasting journey. The listener is like, well, I want just envisioning you as the main character in that story, and it's their version of what that story is painted like, and that's what makes it more special for them. I agree. Started around the same time as well. I realized just how important it is and this ability to have a platform to just share your stories and share your experience in your life journey. And there's so many benefits to it. And I think for the most part it looks like all your shows have been solo, or I think you did have your partner on one, or was.

There a mix of guests no, I have a lot of interviews. I do a lot of interviews, but every time I'd have, like, a live event, people would say, we want more of you, or I'd always get the feedback from clients. Well, we want more solo shows. In certain therapeutic or coaching sessions where I'm the person paying a coach, like with Dr. Sree, I would always record my session, and then I would watch it. And again, like, you were talking about, who do you choose to work with as a person? And I chose her for very specific reasons, but she's not me. And I think I'm a pretty good coach, and I'm very intuitive, and I see multiple things, and I have many different layers of intuition that don't require logic or me understanding anything about you. I get to do that all the time, which is super fun. The people, they're like, how do you know that? I'm like, I just felt it. When I record a session like that, I will always watch it back because I'll get because there's who you are in the moment. Like, I've had Dr. Terry Real on the show three times, and two times he was therapying me on my show. And so I couldn't fully be the patient because I'm recording a podcast.

So even though I still cried and I'm happy and I'm completely vulnerable, I have to juggle being a host and being patient. So I'm actually half, like, two out of those three episodes. I didn't answer the question. I think I've had him on four times. I didn't actually answer the question he asked. So I go back and I watch it. I'm like, JJ, you didn't answer that question. That's the wrong answer. Because I wasn't present as a person being a patient, because I was being a podcaster. So all that to say that when, you know, so with the recording and the watching yourself and this intimacy, and I realized that I started my diary show because I'm an audio processor. Hello, duh. I process auditorially. So sometimes I don't need anybody else to coach me. I just need to talk it through. And you're not going to necessarily talk to yourself out loud.

I mean, you might, and that's fine, no judgment, but I also know that when I do that, sometimes people my community, I really did it for my community. And I don't care if anybody doesn't like it. It's just my stuff. It's me, like, coaching me. It's me working through it out loud, which to some people has value. I've heard that they like it, and that's fine. But I say at the beginning, if you don't like it, I don't care for you. I'm not doing this for you. This is a selfish podcast that if you get value out of it, awesome. And if you don't, I don't care. I literally provide so much free content, and if you don't like it, I don't care. I create. A public service. Do you ever get if you're obviously, your podcast potentially listen to the show? It's like I'm at that point in life, and I love it, where someone negative will give me a negative comment.

On YouTube, it happens all the time because I'm not for everybody. I've learned two things. I now say if it's a guest that they have searched, someone of note who is famous, written a bunch of books, whatever, I'll say, welcome to the show, blah, blah, blah. Just so you know, this is my show. I'm JJ fozain. I'm a power strategist. And what that means is I'm going to talk and I'm going to have an opinion. And if you don't like me, totally cool guest. Where can they find more of just you? And so we get that out of the way right in the beginning. If you don't like me, stop watching. Go find that person on a different platform. So when people come to my YouTube channel and they're like, JJ, can you not talk as much? And I'm like, no, it's my show. I pay for it.

I take the time to give it to you for free. And if you don't like it, I don't care. You don't pay my bills. You don't contribute to my life in any way. No, go away. I don't care what you have. So easy. But wait, one more quick, fun story that you all appreciate. Anyone who's a podcaster. And I even have a screenshot of this. It was my inner child episode with Dr. Terry Real, which I did not do that disclaimer because I didn't know that yet. He wants to therapy me. He wants to use an example. He doesn't want to just talk.

I'm giving the backstory, and someone comes on. I forget how far in, but let's just say it's like eleven minutes in. And she's like, oh, my God. Who is this person? This host? She just wants to blather on about herself. So self indulgent. She's so annoying. That's the YouTube comment number one. Okay, 20 minutes later, at the 30.

Minutes mark, are you seeing this real time?

Yes.

Oh, wow.

So it comes across because it came on my iPad, and it was probably a week 20 to 30 minutes later. Oh, my God. Thank you so much. That was so important. I really appreciate your vulnerability. I bought the book. Thanks to both of you for the podcast. It's like, she want to come on bitch about how annoying I was. But she kept watching, and then she got value, and then she thanked me. So both comments live on the same page. And I was like, oh, my God, you are so reactionary. Just shut up and wait to watch the whole thing and then move on. If you don't like me, move on.

Well, it's almost like a marketing promo. It could be like changing lives in the moment, and you could just show the timestamps of the boom.

Oh, that's good. I like that I have it.

I was literally changing hearts and minds in the span of, like, 20 minutes. It's like, hey, you may think I'm not for you, but give me 20 minutes and then we'll have a conversation later. But also, what I love about that is I've talked about this a lot, this idea of repelling people as fast as you're attracting them, and the fact that you do it early on, it's like you're giving a gift to the listener to let them know that I value your time. And so I'll help you make the decision very quickly about bailing because you're going to get a feel for who I am, so there's no surprises, which I love.

Yeah, I interviewed Ainsley McLeod and he'll be back on, and I didn't do that intro, and I still keep getting I'd like to hear more about from Ainsley. I'm like, Great, go. Follow Ainsley. I just delete these comments. I don't reply, but I always reply out loud when I delete them. I'm like, Great, go follow him. It's very simple. You don't need to tell me people who are on YouTube aren't like people who are podcasting. People understand when you go to someone's podcast that this is someone's show. When you're searching, they don't know. Don't take it personally, because I'd be frustrated too if I was looking for a specific person. I didn't know how else to find.

Them, and I went exactly.

Some person I didn't know was talking a lot. I get it. I don't have judgment against that. But I'm just here to tell you two people, this is my show, so let me just get out of the way real fast so you can go get what you want. And don't blame me for your frustration because you've come into my room and I provide free information for you. You're welcome.

If you had to look back from when the time you started podcast, how would you say you've grown as a podcast host between now and present day?

I've allowed myself to be more of me. Obviously, you can hear I'm fiery and I like to cut through BS as fast as possible.

Yeah.

And I'm a Catalyst. So that means that people are going to misinterpret and or they're not going to feel me, they're going to hear me. And I used to think that that was I used to think I needed to do video because most people that see me present feel my heart behind the words. Back before, when we're doing teleconferences and things, remember telesumits? Remember when you do that on the phone? That was what I did before podcast. Sometimes, because of my high energy, people would misinterpret that as either aggressive or like, I'm too much or whatever. And I am for some people, absolutely. So how I've grown as a podcaster is to allow myself to heal through those negative comments, through facing who I am, who I'm not, and not being apologetic about it. The benefit is that I have been able to make money, I've been able to change lives, I've saved marriages, I've helped people who've been depressed for years and were not successful in therapy be happy for the first time. I have so many success stories just showing up and sharing what I think is important that that has created a confidence of knowing that it's not just me that this works for. This works for other people too. And so when you see that happen over and over again, the value that I know some people get, the life changing value, is more important to me than 20 people that are annoyed by me. You don't serve me. And so it's not going to stop me from sharing what I know works for at least the people that have come forward to either work with me or told me that they got value out of the podcast.

Even if they've never paid anything they've used the exercises I'm very generous in. Like, I actually tell you how to do things. Like, I don't bluff it and go, but you got to pay for it. No, I give you tools that you can use tactical. Right? And so as a podcast, I think it's just grown me into accepting myself at a different level and being okay with that and knowing who I'm for, knowing who I'm not for, and double checking my intentions behind any of the things that I do or say. And so it's created a deeper self love and respect.

What's the most misunderstood thing about you?

Ego. My ex husband thought I wanted to do all this to be famous. All you care about is being famous is what he said. I was like, not really sure I'll be famous. I mean, there's things that happen that I don't want when that happens. But I had one of my clients, I'll say clients, but she's been with me for so long, she's so much more than that in a group that she's in my Mastermind this year. And she sent a picture last week and said, this reminds me of you. And the quote on the Instagram says, my love language is reminding you of your power. And that's why podcasting for me, if the people who've been listening for a while feel me, they feel my heart. They know that I can be sharp. I don't let the victim mentality story go on very long. And I don't easily support out of alignment, fear based, scarcity decisions like my job. My role that I've taken on for myself too, as others is to get you to the truth, to alignment authenticity and integrity as fast as possible and to clear the bullshit and to do the things that work and not perpetuate things that don't work. I'm about efficiency. And so I think the most misunderstood thing about me is that I once before one of my events, and I said this to my audience every time I have an event.

I said, if you can't, like, if money is an issue, don't let money be the reason why you don't come to this event. Let me know. We'll work it out. I've made payment plans for people, all kinds of payment plans. It doesn't mean you're going to get it for free. Just means I'm willing to be more flexible, because it's not about the money for me. Like, I'm looking right now to make a huge, like I told you, with this emotional conversation with my mastermind that takes me from thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of listeners who could potentially be in my Mastermind down to less than 100. But because it's out of integrity for me to do it any other way, I will suffer that consequence. And maybe it won't be a consequence. Maybe it'll work in my favor, but I have to do what feels right for me. But the conversation, I think, is the truth, and I want to have because I see what I see, and you don't have to agree with me, and that's okay. I'm not trying to shove this down anybody's throat. Podcast are free. You decide to listen or you don't. But I think, again, the most misunderstood thing is some people will hear me as, she has to be right, she has to be right.

And ego, like, this is about her ego, and they don't feel the passion and the heart behind it because they think they know me. I get it. I probably remind you of someone that you have a history with, so you tell this story. I'm your mother. I'm your teacher. I'm somebody you didn't get along with. I'm your ex wife, for one person, or I'm your wife or your current wife. And so I get that you've attached that story to me when it's not true. But again, it goes back to resonance. If we don't resonate, I'm okay with that. I only want to work with people that can feel my heart or my intention and that it's pure. I'm happy, I'm good. And when I'm not, I take care of it. This isn't about me trying to convince anybody of anything. I just want to help people get to where they want to go faster, because I think a lot of stuff out there is crap, and I see people suffer.

That's why I've taken this huge risk deciding to say, here's three reasons why talk therapy is ineffective. Because a lot of people come to me after five years, seven years of therapy in two sessions. They're like, Holy crap. Oh, my God, my whole life has changed. And I'm like and so finally, I'm like, okay, there's something here, and I know this, but now I'm kind of starting to prove it in certain ways. Not prove it. I mean, again, therapy is whatever people are going to get benefit from it, who are ready for that or aren't ready for someone like me. Different strokes for different folks. But I take big risks and I put myself out there and I know not everybody loves it and I'm perfectly okay with it.

Yeah. I think it's showing people, through your example, the power of taking ownership for the consequences in your life and along the lines of just, like, not having that victim mentality, but also realizing that if you're the one who got yourself into this mess, then you're probably the only person that can get yourself out of this mess. And the sooner I think people can awaken to that realization, it is incredibly empowering, because you realize you do have the tools. And with a little bit of help and a little bit of guidance, you have the skill. Set and the knowledge and you just have to have the passion or the drive or whatever the word is to just keep you moving forward day in because you're going to fall in your face a lot on that journey to self improvement. But I think being comfortable with failure, it's something you learn as an entrepreneur as well. Like those first couple of times, those first failures are like, oh shit, thousands of dollars wasted on that thing, thousands of dollars wasted on that thing. That partnership just failed miserably. What's happening? But you have to realize that these are the things, those are all the examples of the things that didn't work there's. Like, okay, so let's now try some stuff that might work, which I think I love. One last question. What's something you've changed your mind about recently?

Hmm well, I think the biggest one goes back to this conversation about therapy and conscious mind versus subconscious mind. I think when I learned about subconscious mind, I was like, oh my God, it's all about the subconscious mind. We have to do hypnosis, we have to do this binaural beats, we've got to do energy healing. We've got to do and I did that and I did all that and I've had benefit from all of it. And I've had clients that I sent them and they had to do this kind of energy healing or whatever, right. And then they come out of it and they feel better, but they're interpreting life the same way. So they go back to the same triggers that they had. And I'm now back to that. If you do not change the computer, if you do not change the way that you interpret the situation, which is your 12% of your conscious mind, then you will continue activating the same response, the same emotional response, and the same opinion. So I'm now like, oh yeah, it's fine. I still think it has value and you do need to understand it and know how it plays in your life. But I have some tools to understand what that is. But we don't need to guess you can just figure it out. It's a lot faster. And so now I hear subconscious of mine.

I'm like, no, because people just think it's going to be some magic wand. They're going to have hypnosis, and somehow that's going to change all their behaviors and beliefs. I'm like, you have to be conscious of this perspective change. I want to do another webinar, like, two more reasons why talk therapy isn't effective. I'm watching Jason Siegel lives here in Ohio, and I saw him hiking the other day, and what's his show? His new show, and he's a therapist. It's maybe as I'm watching the show, and I only watch one episode, and he's great. This isn't Jason.

That's the one with Harrison Ford, right?

I think I saw the yeah, but I'm thinking of, like, the structure of therapy in that a person comes into a room, and again, this is not the therapist's fault. This is how therapy works. And they tell you a story, and then the therapist is supposed to basically validate you and reflect back to what they heard you say. So here's where I'm looking at this going, all right, this person is coming from their point of view with their information. And in these sessions, there is no more information necessarily given, and there's no necessarily different conversation about the story. So I have no new way of assessing or interpreting the information. Not all the time, sometimes, but generally, if my role that's why Jason in this show breaks out of this ridiculous, like, reflecting back and just validating you because they don't change anything. But why would we think that something's going to change if we're still looking at it the same way with the same amount of information? Don't we need to learn something new? It makes me crazy. As you can hear. It's not logical. It's not logical that that would have any lasting change. When the person who you're paying is challenging you on that, it's probably you who's misinterpreting the situation. But you're the star of the show because you're the client, so you're getting validated.

Oh, yeah. That's terrible what happened to you. You're not getting challenged on that. You're interpreting it wrong. Yeah, so it's crazy to me. So what has changed is that I'm now back to looking at how we can use our conscious mind and our choices and our day to day interpretation to shift and change all of what's underneath. I've had a client go from 30 years of pain about his dad and in one conversation thought differently. And now when he thinks about it, I mean, this person has gone through rehab. He has been abusive, he's been in jail. He's had so much anger, and he went to a therapist, Duran, my program, and he said to us, oh, yeah, I said, you went to therapist therapist today about my anger issues with my dad. And then he started to tell the story, and I was like, Hold on. No. And I gave him a different perspective, and then it wiped it clean, and he was like, literally, he'd say, Holy crap. Hold on. He wouldn't say crap.

I don't know if I can swear on your show, but he was okay. Holy shit. He's like, Are you fucking kidding me? Is this as easy as it can be? And I'm like, yeah, because you now see it differently, and therefore you respond emotionally differently. Now you feel loved where you felt rejected before, and it can be as simple as seeing it from a different point of view. It can be transformative and life changing. And I'm now super committed to the 12% of your conscious mind, so that's what I've changed. And it's amazing because even I have people who are doing hypnosis. And again, those things are great, but if you don't change the way you interpret something, you don't get lasting results.

Well, I can't think of a better way to wrap up and put a bow on this conversation. I think we've covered all the bases podcast, spirituality, your perspectives on therapy, entrepreneurship, finding your voice, being honest and genuine in your message, repelling as fast as you're attracting. Thank you. Thank you for this, keeping the energy high on this conversation. Thank you for bringing your energy and your resonance to this audience and to my listeners. I'm grateful to Allison for connecting us. She's a special human being, and I'm glad we got connected. I'm glad I know who you are, and I'm glad you're in my podcast world now. So I really enjoyed this time we spent together. Thank you for sharing your story, jjfozanes.com, for people who learn about the show. Anywhere else you want to send folks?

No. I mean, everything is there. If you're interested in the webinar, it's free. It's the three reasons why Talk therapy is ineffective. That's on Flizanes.com. All my podcast are on Flizanes.com. Basically, all my group. Everything is there. Don't need to go anywhere else. You could type Jjildanes into your search bar of your podcast player, and then you'll see all the shows. But thank you so much, Harry, for this conversation, because I love when someone has the curiosity and can be articulate and intuitive and in the moment with a conversation like this. Because, like you said, we did weaved in and out of so many different subjects, but it got tied together in such a way that I've been interviewed where people ask me really random questions that I'm trying to go, where are we going with this? They have no direction. And I'm working really hard to kind of give value to the audience in other ways. And you are a master interviewer and podcaster, and I really appreciate that opportunity to talk with you today.

So thank you.

Thanks. And hopefully we get to meet up some podcasting event sometime in the future as well.

I hope so.