357 James Hammond - What Drives James Hammond's Passion for Travel and Podcasting?

James Hammond [00:00:00]: Someone approaches me, if someone says to me they want a series on a location, I guess they'd give me some dates. Right. So that could be planned when in advance. But if it's my own trip, I had this plan since March, so I knew what was coming up. Not the details, but I knew the countries. So yeah, I was kind of chipping away at letting people know I've got a trip coming up in November, so. And then I started packaging it and put an immediate kit to potential sponsors probably two months ago.

Harry Duran [00:00:27]: Okay.

James Hammond [00:00:28]: So yeah, we'll see where it goes. Put in January, February, when I.

Harry Duran [00:00:38]: Bit of warning here. For those of you listening on audio, this is an extremely video heavy episode. So I wanted to include it here in the feed so that you know it's available. But if you really want to get the most out of this episode, head on over to YouTube.com forward/podcast junkies and you can watch the full episode in its entirety with all the screens that Dave is walking through in this tutorial. I'm host of Winging It Travel Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me on Podcast Junkies.

James Hammond [00:01:05]: Thanks, Harry. It's a pleasure to be here.

Harry Duran [00:01:07]: So lots to cover here, but first off, thank you for attending my session at Podcast Movement. I think that's how we originally connected and I reached out or you had registered for it at least. I wanted to make sure people had gotten the slides.

James Hammond [00:01:20]: Now, I definitely watched your thing live because I took some notes. So I remember good key points in there that I liked. Yeah.

Harry Duran [00:01:27]: Was that your first podcast movement?

James Hammond [00:01:30]: Yes, it was not my first event, but first Podcast Movement and what the takeaway.

Harry Duran [00:01:35]: I imagine you had a bit of traveling to do to get there.

James Hammond [00:01:38]: Yeah, five hour flight. I'm used to traveling so it's fine, but for me, quite intimidating. Even though I've been podcasting four years, I don't know anyone. I think I know maybe knew one person there actually.

Harry Duran [00:01:50]: Okay.

James Hammond [00:01:50]: So it's a lot of networking, approaching people asking questions, going to sessions. So a lot of takeaways. I quite enjoyed it. I like the atmosphere. It's quite a positive atmosphere for podcasting.

Harry Duran [00:02:00]: And which conferences have you been to locally?

James Hammond [00:02:03]: I go to travelcon, which is a sort of a mix between in the travel sphere. So I go to that one every year. And there's an adventure travel show I go to here in Vancouver.

Harry Duran [00:02:14]: Okay, and were you born and raised in Vancouver?

James Hammond [00:02:18]: I am not. I'm from Norwich in England and uk.

Harry Duran [00:02:22]: It seems that there's going to be a lot of travel Talked about in this episode. So what's the story and how did you end up in Vancouver?

James Hammond [00:02:28]: Yeah, like a real high level elevator pitch, if you like. I grew up in Norwich. I then was kind of quite sheltered growing up. It's quite a small place for UK standards in the middle of nowhere for you guys. It's quite close to London. It's about two hours. Grew up, had an interest in music and in football in bracket soccer, and that kind of took over a little bit. I want to join the Air Force. Didn't happen. But I was really good at music, so I applied to go to a college called BIM, which is the equivalent of something like Berkeley in U.S. berkeley? Yep. So I got in for there personal audition, went to London for four years, got burnt out from music and then went traveling. So six months after that in 2013, and I haven't really stopped. So I kind of lived in four countries now in Canada. Settled in Vancouver before COVID happened. We stayed. I went traveling for a year last year and then came back this year. So that's kind of the rough journey.

Harry Duran [00:03:22]: What was it about music that burned you out?

James Hammond [00:03:24]: The industry is real tough and if you're ever exposed to that, I think you're going to have to realize that just being great at your instrument is great, but it's not enough. You need to do all the other stuff, which is like networking. Not being an idiot is quite an interesting part of it as well. But also get lucky. You're going to need to work with the right producers, the right writers, the right gigs at the right time. So there's a lot of stuff that happened. You really have to commit. My friends are still doing it 10, 15 years later and they're doing well. But when you think at the start you're gonna be like a rock star or whatever, it doesn't quite work out that way.

Harry Duran [00:03:57]: What would you say was the high point of your music career?

James Hammond [00:04:00]: High point is probably I played a gig at the Hundred Club in London, which is quite a well known underground music club on Oxford street and Jimi Hendrix has played there, so that ticks the books for me. Rolling Stones, all the above are played there. So I think that's nice to be in the same room as them.

Harry Duran [00:04:16]: Yeah. And so when did the podcasting come on your radar?

James Hammond [00:04:19]: Not until Covid. So I had a decade of traveling actually. Yeah. So I kind of went about the world. Didn't really document my stories. Puffing Facebook maybe. And then Covid happened. We couldn't travel, so I was like, oh, what can you do? Well, you can talk about it. Hence the podcast got started.

Harry Duran [00:04:38]: Where were you looking to for inspiration at that time? Were you listening to any or did you just jump in with both feet?

James Hammond [00:04:44]: I'd be keen to get your thoughts on this, but at the time, even though this is only four years ago. Yeah, four years ago I started podcasts were a thing and they're quite popular, but compared to now, they're super popular now. Like everyone's got a podcast. Right? But even back in four years ago, I don't think everyone had a podcast. Right. I think some people did and I listened to a few podcasts on YouTube. That's where I kind of watch and listen to most of my podcasts. But I've done no research. I just kind of thought, you know what, my mum says I wing it all the time of my life. That'd be naming the podcast, I'll get a microphone. I've got a work laptop and let's see what happens with that. So the first year was kind of like loads of stories from my travels, people I knew from travels or people who knew from home who traveled as well. They all came on. So basically my friends came on and that's kind of how it started. Yeah.

Harry Duran [00:05:34]: And then did you sort of cut your teeth on that first year? Did you have an idea of what the format was or were you just trying different formats, guests, solos, and just kind of for that first year to see what worked?

James Hammond [00:05:44]: Yeah, first year was a mix. So did 20, 15, 20 minute solo episodes, which would be probably a story or a country, and throw in some tips in there as well about what to do when you travel there and mix it up with 1 to 2 hour chats with my friends. So I guess I was kind of flicking between the long format and the short format to see what worked, but I think both worked different audiences, so that's why I still do that now. But yeah, first year really was, I don't want to keep saying, like winging it. It really was like I was just had a good start and then it really dipped in the summer. So I started in February, dipped in the summer. I was like, oh, no one's really listening anymore. And I wasn't. My heart wasn't really in either and I was almost gonna quit, but something changed. I just kind of kept it going, got maybe a guess. I didn't expect to get that kind of kicked. Started as something else and then the numbers went up. Ended that year to more than when I started. So that. Okay, so maybe There is a jump that's gonna help me, but also increase numbers of listeners.

Harry Duran [00:06:44]: And as you started to think about who you'd want to have on a show and you started to branch out beyond your friend circle, I imagine you were looking at other travel podcaster or people who are, like, well known in the space.

James Hammond [00:06:55]: Yeah. So well known in space travel writers and journalists as well. So had a few come on early doors, which is really great. Still in contact now, which is good. Yeah, I think I just kind of thought, I'll pitch to some people. Never done that before. So I kind of researched how to pitch to a guest via email. So put a few days out. Some guys were releasing books. I got some free books, quite early doors in exchange for the podcast interview. So I quite enjoyed that. And yeah, then slowly but surely, some people would ask to come on my podcast who I didn't know. Other travel podcasters as well, in the same space. It's quite a collaborative, small community.

Harry Duran [00:07:30]: Yeah.

James Hammond [00:07:31]: Yeah, that kind of was the second year, I think.

Harry Duran [00:07:34]: And so bring us to present day. Obviously, if you're attending a podcast conference, I imagine it's because you're looking to either take your show to the next level or, you know, see what else you can do to improve the quality of the content. So I'm curious about your thought process as you're looking through possible conferences and you see podcast movement and kind of thinking about if it's worth the effort.

James Hammond [00:07:55]: Yeah, I think I had three stages to my podcast. We talked about the first one. The second stage is because I knew I was going to quit my job and go traveling again. So I was like, okay, so I'll do the first year. I'll get my feet under the table. Let's try and get some guests on that are fairly known in the travel space. But I knew in 2023, roughly, that I was going to be away. That portion was, can I podcast? I was traveling, Can I meet people traveling, can I interview on the road? Can I also talk about my experiences in real time? You know, one or two weeks? That was the phase last year, and that was a really interesting year with a lot of lessons learned. A great year for travel. Not so great on the business side. I was losing money, but some great content for travel. So this year I was like, right, I need to really focus on better audio quality. So microphones have been upgraded, equipment's been upgraded, and I also need to learn the craft of editing well, Chuck in their video. I started YouTube as well earlier this year. Not the podcast, but Something else. So that upskill and then let's go to some events and see what other people are saying, like yourself, where I could learn a lot of tips and tricks and other things to implement. So I think Podcast Movement was more business minded, but also skill minded about where can I improve next? And as we speak today, it's not officially confirmed, but I'm joining a podcast network here in Vancouver, probably by the time this comes out, which is really exciting. I haven't signed anything yet, but it's been verbally agreed and I'm really excited for that next step. So that's going to be the next part of the journey for the podcast.

Harry Duran [00:09:26]: Talk a little bit about the podcast network. Is that just a group of local podcasters?

James Hammond [00:09:30]: Okay. So it's called Voyeurscape. So V o y a scape and David is the guy who owns it. He is a travel podcast himself. He does a podcast called Travel in 10. It's a very short 10 minute podcast about travel, but he started in 2006, so he's an OG. And every time he releases an episode, right. He goes number one in Canada because he's been going for years, right. So well known in the podcast space, in the travel podcast space. And he's just set up Canada's first digital travel media podcast network based here in Vancouver. And he approached me to ask if I'd be interested in joining him. So we had a chat. He came on my podcast as well. So we talked travel, had a coffee, been in discussions. And I think his vision and the way he sees independent podcasts is the way I see it. So I think there's a good relationship there. So I thought, why not let's join him?

Harry Duran [00:10:20]: And so what the scene in Vancouver, Are there meetups?

James Hammond [00:10:23]: I have a few meetups I go to. Not very much. There's a few branded podcast agencies here. Jar Audio, I think. What's her name? She's at Podcast Movement. I saw one of her chats. I can't remember her name. She's one of the chief operating officers there. So she was at Podcast Movement. I can't remember her name. Apologies about that. And then they've got a few others, a few other ones, like everything. Podcasts are based out of Vancouver and yeah, Pacific Content is also based here in Vancouver. So there's a few things. But yeah, but my audience is mainly us. So it's quite an interesting dynamic.

Harry Duran [00:10:53]: And so for podcasters that are not as familiar with the travel niche, I imagine there's a lot of shows or a Lot of podcasts about travel and people probably pick different regions. Are there subgenres within travel that people just stick on one continent or they cover like maybe just the food aspect of it or, you know, I've talked to a couple, but it's been a while and someone's wondering what the latest is in the travel podcast scene.

James Hammond [00:11:17]: That's a great question and I think there's different answers. Right. So I'm going to say off the bat, there's different countries that have different travel podcasts. So I'm based in Canada, but my two biggest audience are US and UK because I'm from uk, so I have those two which are very different audiences. But in terms of travel podcasts, most are short format. So even interviewing is probably 30 to 40 minutes. I'm beyond an hour, I'm an hour to two hours. So there isn't many of us doing the long format travel podcast in conversation and stuff. I also do audio immersive episodes, which is a very niche one in travel. I think there's only a few who do that, like Travel Goal, Armchair Explorer. They increase the sense that you're there, so you've got sounds and intermittent talking and very efficient information through the mic. So I delve into that world as well for my short form content. But yeah, I think mainly it's long format and short format. But also American podcasters probably are target American audiences. That's probably quite a different type of podcast to me. Who I could maybe talk about Southeast Asia and backpacking, which is very much. A lot of Europeans do that and a lot of people in Australia do that sort of stuff. Right. So yeah, a bit of a mix, but not many long format travel podcasters. So I'm gonna small field there.

Harry Duran [00:12:37]: How would you differentiate the difference between a UK travel podcast and the US travel podcast?

James Hammond [00:12:43]: I think the UK travel podcast scene is very much based on Europe and it's very much based on where the Europeans mostly go. Now Europeans do go to North America and it does happen, but you got to bear in mind that Europe to North America is not a bigger need for that conversation. Because if I go from England to usa, I mean, it's saying we speak the same language, things are fairly the same, right? But most UK people, for example, they go to Thailand. So Thailand and Spain are their two number one destinations. You know, everyone I know who's from UK go to Southeast Asia and they go to South Asia, you know, Nepal, India, Sri Lanka, and they also have a big opportunity to go and do the work permits in Australia, New Zealand. So there's a big crossover kind of missing North America, which you can do in Canada. That's what I was on. But I think there's a bigger need to hear about those experiences, about how you can maybe travel to the other side of the world, which is Australia, from UK perspective. And this is the same for Germans. They can get work permits in French, Norwegians and stuff. So I think there's a need for that sort of content as well as Europe, which we all know is on the doorstep. Whereas I think, as David was telling me earlier, who's in charge of that network I'm joining, he's a Canadian podcaster, and European podcasts or travel agencies are not really interested that much in a Canadian podcast. So they think, well, it's just over there, it's not the market for them. But I think he could convince them that is. But there's a big difference there, I think. Yeah, yeah.

Harry Duran [00:14:11]: When you got in, would you say that the travel podcast space was like, full? Like, were there a lot of show? I'm curious how and what you've learned over the years, like how you keep going and how you stand out. I imagine it's a crowded space and there's people entering all the time. And if you have a younger generation, because I imagine also the travelers age out of the travel podcast.

James Hammond [00:14:32]: Yeah.

Harry Duran [00:14:32]: They get families and they're like, now it's a daddy podcast, you know, or something like that. So I'm curious how you think about, like, where you see it, like from a 20,000 foot view.

James Hammond [00:14:41]: Yeah. I thought there was too many podcasts at the start when I joined. I do believe everyone's got different voice. And what I mean by that is that's a bit of a cliche, but in a travel perspective, if you went to Thailand tomorrow and I went to Thailand tomorrow for the same amount of time, even in the same places, we're going to have different story because things happen to you that's different to me. So I think there's enough niche content for any travel podcaster to tell you that it's different to someone else. So no one's got the same journey as me to the same country, and that's the same for anyone.

Harry Duran [00:15:12]: Yeah.

James Hammond [00:15:12]: So I think there is space for that. It's just about how you package that. So I do think there's a lot of travel podcasters who have interviewed over the years, and maybe I'm just another one in that. So I don't think it's too niche where I think the Niche maybe is which I mentioned earlier, is my music background and they was produce quite interesting sounding podcast which I'm trying to go with the immersive audio. Right. So yeah, for example, I go away next week for a month. So that's a month trip in Central America where I've got a podcast that's going to be post production. So not going to produce it when I'm there, but I'm going to collect sounds, local interviews, backpacker interviews, maybe some travel boards and just local people. Right. I think that's quite unique. I don't think there's many podcasters doing that. So I think that's the niche.

Harry Duran [00:15:57]: Where in Central America you're going.

James Hammond [00:15:59]: I'm flying into El Salvador next Saturday and then I'm overlanding it to Mexico City via Guatemala. So that's the premise.

Harry Duran [00:16:08]: I'm Salvadorian.

James Hammond [00:16:09]: Are you?

Harry Duran [00:16:10]: Yeah.

James Hammond [00:16:10]: No way.

Harry Duran [00:16:13]: Yeah, I was born there, I came here, my parents brought me here when I was a year old and I got to go back in when I was like 29 to finally go see the motherland. But yeah, definitely my older brother was born there. So definitely have a. Yeah, definitely try to get as much of the food. There's some good Salvadorian restaurants here in Minnesota, so.

James Hammond [00:16:30]: Right, got it.

Harry Duran [00:16:31]: Minneapolis. Yeah. Have you been there before that part of the world?

James Hammond [00:16:34]: I've been in South America, but not central, so it's gonna be my first time. You? Yeah. I fly into San Salvador, then I've got three nights there. I've got two interviews in San Salvador. So I'm really looking forward to interviewing some local people. They've agreed to come on.

Harry Duran [00:16:44]: Oh, wow.

James Hammond [00:16:45]: So gonna do them, do some walking tours, get a feel for the country and then I'll decide where to go next, which I'm not sure, probably Santa Ana maybe, but we'll see.

Harry Duran [00:16:54]: Okay. Yeah, I mean, it's probably a better time to go than when I went because it was pretty intense. It was definitely like third world country, military with the AK47 rifle outside at the gas station, at the bank. We went on a hike to a beautiful, you know, mountain hike. But there was guys following us with machetes, looking very sketchy. So we had to quickly turn around and go back down and they started kind of following us. It was pretty scary times.

James Hammond [00:17:22]: What year was that?

Harry Duran [00:17:24]: It was 99, 98. 99.

James Hammond [00:17:26]: Okay. So El Salvador used to be the murder capital, right. Of the year, quite routinely. But don't forget New York Times this year put El Salvador 34 in the top 50 places to go is completely turned around. So I think those days hopefully are over.

Harry Duran [00:17:41]: Well, just tracking what Nayib Bukele is doing, it's outstanding. He's done something at a level that I think other leaders only wish they could do. And just to kind of make that shift of rounding up all these criminals and tens of thousands and just putting them in jail and just deciding. I think he calls himself the most benevolent dictator on the planet. But I mean, you do need a bit of a strong arm to do something like that. But if it's for the benefit of a better economy and then just taking the lead on making Bitcoin the currency. Yeah, it's very interesting. You know, probably an exciting time and I'm sure there's a lot of, you know, obviously speaking to your plans, like travelers are taking a second look at that country.

James Hammond [00:18:24]: Yeah. And I've been in touch with the El Salvador, like a tourism board and they're like, oh, yeah, anything you get, content wise, we'll share it. So they're really willing to share whatever if you're a Travel podcast or YouTube or whatever you want? Yeah, I think they're willing to share whatever you've got. So I think now is a good time to go. I kind of think with these places one or two years in, everyone then goes there. So I think, yeah, this year's the year. Maybe next year might be okay. But if it carries on, then the year after might be quite busy.

Harry Duran [00:18:54]: Yeah. I'll be following your socials.

James Hammond [00:18:57]: Awesome.

Harry Duran [00:18:59]: See what you post. How do you decide a country for your traveling and then what do you do for prepping? Because it's, you know, you said you got some interviews lined up and you were checking out travel boards. So I imagine there's a bit of prep work that goes into these trips so that you make the most of it. And I imagine you have the end in mind, obviously, for getting good content for the show.

James Hammond [00:19:19]: Yeah. Because I have a YouTube as well. Right. So I've got three things. I've got to enjoy the trip. I've got to do the podcast, a series, and also I've got to do the YouTube. I think my plan is actually quite weird. I don't actually plan the trip, so no real plans with that. But what I do plan is if I know I'm going to be somewhere that's a major hub that will be reaching out to people who I research in that area, who maybe speaks English to a decent level and want to come on a podcast or be interviewed. And I think my best Tip for anyone who's traveling is free walking tours. Now, free walking tours, you can book on Guru Walk. There's other ones as well, but you've got to bear in mind most of these are English. So you've got to think, okay, so these guys are willing to speak to a group people in English about their home place. Well, that means they might say yes to coming onto a podcast. I'm kind of pitching it as a chat, not really in an interview, just a conversation about your hometown. What should I do in El Salvador? And generally they say yes to that. So I think that's a good way to get some sort of interviews on the go. And obviously you've got the official tourism boards which are reached out to by email or by social media. That's hit and miss. Just depends if they read it or respond back. The third part is YouTube. Now, it's different these days because last year, my trip, I didn't really have this idea in mind of content from a video perspective. Now I need to collect sounds for my podcast series, which is different. I also need to record video on my phone, which is going to be a bit more day to day, but also my actual camera with my mic. As well as interviews, there's a lot of content to think about. So you need to be careful about how you plan that because that can overtake your thinking about traveling somewhere. You think, oh, God, I've got enough content here or here. So I'm going to be working out a balance about. Okay, well, this hour in San Salvador is me collecting sounds, videos. I'm going to have an hour walking around San Salvador. That's going to be my content collection hour. And then I'll have an hour just wondering about, you know, what that place look like. Kind of go in here, maybe some food, a local market. So I think you need to break it up because if you think about it all the time, it's not specific enough and it can stress you out, I think. So if you're thinking about, well, I'm going to market, but I need to record as well and eat food. It's just a bit. You need to separate them. Yeah, if you can. If you can. Yeah.

Harry Duran [00:21:37]: And then you have to. Did you. Do you ever have concerns about showing up with all this ski and for your safety or.

James Hammond [00:21:42]: Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, that's something that never goes away. Right. So I've got travel insurance and. Okay, you got, you know, don't wear watches and don't show too much maybe. Yeah, it's a Concern, but just gotta hope for the best. Right. And be sensible, I guess.

Harry Duran [00:21:58]: What's your current kit look like for all this recording?

James Hammond [00:22:01]: Yes, I'll take a Zoom H6, that's my interface and I've got two lapel lavia mics that go into there. SLR therefore interviews mainly, but if I do any sort of speaking into the mic, I'll use that. So an XLR cable goes with them as well, just in case. And then I have a RODE video mic on top of my Sony ZV1 camera that's generally also there just to collect sounds. But also, you know, if you put it on a rock and I'm walking past that, you know that sort of B roll content. Right. So that's there for that. And then pretty much all the wires and all the backup batteries you can imagine. So not too much, but just enough to get me by. I'm not going to take this microphone for example, so it's too much, too heavy, it's too expensive. I can't lose that. I got two, so I could even take one, but I still can't do it. So I think I'll just take the little Lavia mics and hope for the best.

Harry Duran [00:22:56]: I always see those shots of those cameras that obviously look like they were placed somewhere far away like on a rock, like you said. And to get that shot of the walking by and my first thought is like, man, you gotta hope someone just doesn't walk off with the camera.

James Hammond [00:23:09]: That's absolutely right. Yeah.

Harry Duran [00:23:11]: Yeah. I'm sure there's horror stories from travel podcasters and stuff like that happening.

James Hammond [00:23:15]: Yeah. Even people with gear, right. Like YouTubers, they have like this really expensive lens.

Harry Duran [00:23:18]: Oh yeah.

James Hammond [00:23:19]: And. But some cameras have these. But your phone has like a find a location thing, right?

Harry Duran [00:23:24]: Oh yeah, yeah.

James Hammond [00:23:24]: So I've seen videos on TikTok where people have lost or someone's stole their camera, but on their phone they can see where it is so they can track it down and they can get it back. It's quite a hairy situation.

Harry Duran [00:23:34]: Yeah, I'm not sure that's something you'd want to do in a third world country.

James Hammond [00:23:38]: Yeah. But there you go.

Harry Duran [00:23:40]: So it sounds like you're getting a lot of really good content. And so how do you think about when you get back putting it all together? And is the podcast becoming more of like a business for you? And do you think about that in terms of how you create the content now?

James Hammond [00:23:52]: Yes, because I am now pitching out that sponsored eight episode series on Central America to travel companies Basically so that would also be involved in my network work as well, which is coming up hopefully in the new year. But yeah, that will be put at price. This is what you're going to get. These are the countries. So that's the way I'd approach that series. I think I wouldn't do my podcast any other way now. I think I've got enough episodes in the bank and enough numbers to justify that. I can imagine if you're early doors in your journey, it's quite hard to even consider pitching out to a podcast agency or a travel brand saying hey look, sponsor my podcast and you're not too many figures or you probably can't showcase enough content. So I think four years down the line, I think I've done over 250 episodes now. I think I've got enough to share and give people an idea of what's coming up. So yep, definitely business wise it's going to be sponsored content for those trips and obviously in day to day interviews I get approached to maybe someone to sponsor an episode on a guest appearance. That happens as well. So I think there's two kinds. I think all the trips are packaged podcast series. Right. So that can be packaged to travel brands to potentially sponsor and then have the day to day generic weekly podcast which is normally a guest and when I'm not traveling that is just there for anyone who knows, I probably post one a week for pretty much every week of the year. So I think you could guess that James has got one coming out in mid December. True. Yeah, I've got some already recorded for mid December. Right. So I think I try and let people know that as well.

Harry Duran [00:25:32]: So are those the main revenue streams or are there other that you have now for the show?

James Hammond [00:25:37]: I have like affiliate links for travel stuff. Doesn't bring that much in, but main income is definitely sponsored content for sure.

Harry Duran [00:25:45]: Yeah. And so how far out do you have to plan a trip?

James Hammond [00:25:50]: That's a great question. That all depends how someone approaches me. If someone says to me they want a series on a location, I guess they'd give me some dates. Right. So that could be planned well in advance. But if it's my own trip, I had this plan since March, so I knew what was coming up. Not the details, but I knew the countries. So yeah, I was kind of chipping away at letting people know I've got a trip coming up in November, so. And then I started packaging it and put an immediate kit to potential sponsors probably two months ago.

Harry Duran [00:26:23]: Okay.

James Hammond [00:26:23]: So yeah, we'll see where it goes put in January, February, when I finish producing the series and probably can send out a little trailer and see if someone wants to sponsor that eight episode series.

Harry Duran [00:26:34]: Sounds like you have all the pieces in place to start offering a course for new travel podcasts.

James Hammond [00:26:40]: Maybe. Yeah. Yeah, maybe you're right.

Harry Duran [00:26:42]: Yeah, you start figuring out that what you're doing, you take it for, you know, probably it's coming second nature to you, especially on the production side because you have the music background. But in all this thing that you're doing. I always think about this because I own a podcast production agency now and it's because that first year I did everything on my own and then I started joining these high end business masterminds and I realized like these business people like do not want to do that, you know, so it's interesting. Some people just want to be the personality and they just want to be the travel podcaster and just get the content. And so I think, you know, obviously if you can shorten the learning curve for them and, you know, give them the gear list, give them like, this is how you prep for a trip, you know, trip prep list and stuff like that, it seems like that could be a good opportunity so they can hit the ground running.

James Hammond [00:27:24]: Yeah, I don't have a course. That's a great idea. Yeah. Or even a guide. So I was at Travel Con and a few people said, oh, do you have like a. Just a startup guide for travel podcasts? I don't feel like. Well, if you did, I'd buy it right now. Okay. So I'm still working on that.

Harry Duran [00:27:40]: To know. Yeah, that's good to know. How have you grown as a podcast.

James Hammond [00:27:44]: Host since starting the show in terms of personality wise?

Harry Duran [00:27:49]: Yeah. So you think about yourself like, you know, every podcaster and like when they record that first episode and they go back and listen to it, they're like, cringey.

James Hammond [00:27:55]: Yeah, I can't do that.

Harry Duran [00:27:56]: But I always tell my clients and students, like, your tenth is to sound better in your first, your fiftieth is going to sound better than your tenth, your hundredth better than your fiftieth. I think I might even said that during my talk as well. So when you look back, you know, now knowing what you know and how do you think, like, you can see where you've made improvements.

James Hammond [00:28:13]: Yeah, I think I've made huge improvements, not only in terms of the content, because now it's a bit more thought out and it's not just my friends coming on, which is great. Don't get Wrong. The vibe on a friend's podcast episode is great. It's very different. Someone I don't know. But the sound quality is much better now. So I've improved the editing process. And now you utilize AI. It's a big part of my process now. And also I have better equipment. So I think post. Yeah, probably post trip, actually. So this year 2024 is what I would say is the best year for more efficient content because I have lots of guests reaching out and I've said yes and no to certain guests with better equipment and it's a better edited episode experience each week. So I think the package is better this year, but that goes in stages. I think I learned very early doors that I could probably converse with someone for an hour and it'd be quite fun. I don't think I've ever had anyone want to finish early. So maybe that was the first learning curve about learning how to conduct a long format episode, about really labeling it. So I was kind of in an hour conversations and that kind of flew by. Okay, so people can do this to learning that maybe some people don't tune in because it's too long. So, okay, let's do some SO episodes. And that's difficult because you're into this mic, maybe scripted, and you say all the things you don't want to say, like ands, ums and buts and sos. And so it's a very much more production heavy episode because you're taking yourself out of it a little bit and.

Harry Duran [00:29:45]: It'S not as much fun because you're in a room talking to yourself.

James Hammond [00:29:47]: Of course, yeah, the stories might be funny, but yeah, you just kind of speaking into the wall, aren't you? Yeah. So I learned that early doors, okay, maybe I need to do both. So I implemented long and short format. And what I also learned is editing is huge and it's also long. So if I got two episodes to edit, yeah, that's a journey. So I try to limit this year to every other week being long format, short format. And that hasn't even changed the figures to get worse. I thought our long format interview with someone is why people listen. So I thought, okay, well, let's take one out every two weeks or two every month. Let's see if that changed the figures. I don't think it has. So that tells me that people listen, whatever. So it's not a disaster if I don't get four conversations out a month. So I kind of learned that this year. The problem I have now, though is and this might sound a nice problem is that I do get reached out to a lot and saying no is tough, but also saying yes is great, but then I have too many backed up. So now I'm doing week to week before I go away from a trip, but also before the end of the year. So it's kind of a bit stressful that I need to learn this year that you know what, I need to stick to my guns and say no or I can delay the process by a few months.

Harry Duran [00:31:04]: So yeah, yeah, you could do Joe Rogan style and just put the whole two plus hours on there unedited.

James Hammond [00:31:11]: Yeah, love to. That's a dream, right?

Harry Duran [00:31:14]: I think what I found over the years and I'm at, you know, 350 episodes over the past 10 years, it's just I have gotten better at long form conversations because it's like finding the pace in the interview, like being comfortable with like silence if you ask an open ended question that involves some thought, you know, learning how to listen out for threads to pull, how to be naturally curious about the topic and seeing, you know, where you go. Because I always, I call them conversations now. I don't call them interviews because I just.

James Hammond [00:31:41]: That's your, that's your tip. That's one thing I changed since up for podcast. I'm changing my bio from interviews to conversations. That's the biggest thing.

Harry Duran [00:31:51]: Yeah. And I think it forces you to pay more attention because if you think, you know, I always say, I probably said you're hearing probably a lot of the things that you heard at the talk. But the idea that there's three people in the conversation, the host, the guest and the listener. Singular. Right. And so they're just at the pub, like pulled up a stool watching us have this, listening to us have this conversation. So I'm always conscious of it because even like, you know, 10 years in, you still seem, you know, you get forget or you get lost in the conversation because it's so good and you have to remember like there's someone watching and listening at this moment and we appreciate them for doing that. So it's fun when, especially when you find a good conversation or someone who's just as good of a conversationalist because then it feels like you guys, you could talk for hours.

James Hammond [00:32:29]: Absolutely. Have you find interviewing or conversation in person? Have you done that much before?

Harry Duran [00:32:36]: Oh, for the podcast, it's hard I think because of the. I'm a little neurodivergent. So it's like there's some ADHD in there. So I think the fact that it's just me in here and I'm just talking to you, and you're on the screen and we're just really focused. I mean, you probably experienced this, you know, if you had a couple of chats at Podcast Movement, like, there's so much happening around you, and even, like, you know, mates that I've been friends with for years that I keep seeing because I've been going to podcast movement since 2014, and it's, you know, it's a high school reunion, or you're like, oh, you see them again. And you're like. And you see them once a year at this point, but then out of the corner of your eyes, you're talking to them or over their shoulder, you see someone else, and you're just like, you have to make a decision, and it takes some work. And my partner reminds me of this all the time. It's better to go, you know, deep with one person than to go shallow with many people. And I think over the years, you know, I've tried to just like, hey, hopping back and forth. And I just realized it expends a lot of mental energy when you do that. So it gets a little harder. But when I'm talking to someone, you know, even if someone I see that, I'm like, oh, I better grab them, because I may not see them. The good thing about having a podcast about podcasting is I can pull them onto the show. So I've done that to a couple of my friends, and I said, hey, just come on the show. We'll get an hour. You get, you know, focused attention. Because I'm sure if we had tried this conversation in Podcast Movement, it probably wouldn't have gone well.

James Hammond [00:33:55]: Yeah, I mean, I didn't even sort of entertain that thought, really, I think, yeah. Because I do interviews on the road when I'm traveling. Right. And David, who I mentioned earlier, he's based in Vancouver, so we rented out a free podcast studio at Library. So Vancouver has free podcast studios and libraries, so you can rent an hour or two and have all the equipment that you need. But even when I was doing the interview, I was like, ah, are we close enough to the mic? We're sitting, like, beside each other. Should we be sitting opposite each other? The cameras there. Is it catching us? Is now tilted a little bit. I'm like, oh, my God, it's a tech nightmare almost.

Harry Duran [00:34:30]: Especially if you are, you know, I have everything under control here in terms of the environment. The only thing that's a bit Sketchy sometimes is the My WI fi signal and how well the squadcast is performing today. But I think overall, I always admire those shows that show the two hosts, and they're just like, really casual, sitting in these, like, nice chairs with their, like, SM7B's. And you know, you're like. But you wonder what's happening and how much of a team they need and what type of nice cat. You know, we're talking three or four camera angles as well, because you see them cutting the camera, and I'm sure you can relate to this too, because you're like, you know, the tech involved to do those shots, and you're just like, how many cameras do they have here? Are they miked? And where's the mics? And start to think about all that stuff.

James Hammond [00:35:11]: Yeah, absolutely. I hear you. And I've done the YAP Media Studio, a podcast movement for an interview. So a friend I met there actually, called Lissette, she came on to talk about Cuba. And it's great to finally go in for once and not worry about tech. But then you start thinking about other things. You think, oh, am I sitting at the right angle? Am I. Is the mic close enough to me? Is Lisette close enough to her mic? Are we looking at the camera occasionally? All these things still cross your mind. I don't know how to get away from that.

Harry Duran [00:35:36]: Yeah. And so I have a couple of questions I usually ask every guest. One is, what is something you've changed your mind about recently in life? Yeah. Pick a topic.

James Hammond [00:35:47]: Wow. Change my mind about. Holy cow. Was not expecting that question. Let's go with change my mind about. Oh, this seems really small and a bit almost pointless. But it's related to the podcast. I have changed my mind that I don't write blogs myself anymore. So I write a blog for every episode. And I used to spend hours worrying about it and get behind. But now what I do, and I've decided this is happening from now on, I get the transcript from the interview, upload it to ChatGPT. So give me three subjects here in depth, and an intro and a summary. I now plug that into my website. I add a few James isms, if you like, just to make sure it seems like me. And that's it.

Harry Duran [00:36:34]: Yeah.

James Hammond [00:36:35]: Takes 20 minutes. So I've decided from now on, I'm not the best writer. That's why I start a podcast.

Harry Duran [00:36:40]: Sure.

James Hammond [00:36:40]: And it's a waste of my time worrying about blogging because I'll never be good at it. So let's utilize AI. Yeah, that's probably a big change.

Harry Duran [00:36:48]: Yeah, I think it's. Everyone's trying to figure out their relationship with the robots. And I think one of the skills that's going to be more. It's becoming more and more necessary is prompt engineering and learning how to. What I call learning how to speak to the robots. And because we're seeing more and more tools that are allowing this, every single tool you can think of, whether it's the new iPhone notion, you know, Google Docs, like, everyone's dropping an AI bot in there as well. So I think, you know, obviously, same here. I mean, it's almost like ChatGPT has become my assistant. And, you know, when I need a research question, when I need to, you know, I have a long form that has like 10 different questions and I've answered it before, I can just start feeding them the questions. And it gives me the content in a way. It's like, okay, like, at least it's getting me more than halfway there most of the time. So I think it's an interesting dynamic and I feel like an older generation probably doesn't have the patience to deal with it, so they're just going to kind of ride it out and see how it goes. But I think we're seeing more and more that's becoming like a necessary skill to learn how to effectively use it. Because if you just cut and paste what's in there, there's now, you know, detection software that can detect if it's AI stuff as well. So I think it's an interesting time. I feel like it's just going to get stranger.

James Hammond [00:37:59]: What's your opinion on my scenario or my story there about using AI? Because here's my question, right? If I just copy and paste that in, I know it's AI writing it, I get it. But it has come off a conversation that is not AI. So, yeah, it's using transcript. Like, we could use this transcript of this episode and write a blog about it. But okay, I have written it, but they haven't actually written it just from Wikipedia. They had to use the transcript to write it. So the words they use in that order, even if they quote someone, is different. So do you think that's okay?

Harry Duran [00:38:31]: Yeah, I think so. Because like you said, the source content, it's not like it's generating it. You're not giving it a topic and saying, now generate a blog post for me. It's got the stories, it's got the content from your guests or whatever, your solo episode. So there is, you Inside the transcript.

James Hammond [00:38:46]: Yeah.

Harry Duran [00:38:47]: So it's really just kind of like reorganizing the content in a way, and telling the story of what was in there. I'm all for that because I think it's important, and we talk about this with clients and students to just look for opportunities to repurpose their content. Because you have such a rich source of material when it comes to your episode, and you really just have to think about creatively, how you repackage and put it on a site for the SEO value, I think is really important. You've got so much content. I mean, I've even thought myself, you know, I don't know what type of effort it would take, but just to go back to the 350 episodes and drop them all on, like, on the site, you know, and then I wonder if you can tell the AI not to sound like an AI. We'll probably get to that point.

James Hammond [00:39:26]: What you said there is my list, actually. That's on my list of things to do probably at the Christmas break when a bit more time where. Yeah, I'm gonna go through the back catalog and get the transcripts and then get each episode guest one out on my blog, because that's just there to waiting to be used. Right.

Harry Duran [00:39:42]: How have you found the experience with the immersion and just kind of the soundscape stuff? Because I'm always fascinated by it, and I actually only did it, I think, for maybe one or two episodes out of my entire, you know, because I realize how much work it is. And I love them because I remember in the past I would hear some of these. I was a big fan of a podcast called Strangers by Leah Tao, a great storyteller. And this was back when I got started, probably around 2015. And she was. I was living in LA at the time, and she would have just, like, these soundscapes where you could tell. Like, you could hear her walking to the door, knocking on the door of the guest and going in a door opening, creaking open. And so meeting her podcast movement, and I asked her to be on the show, and she's like, yeah. So she's like, where do you live? I was like, oh, Louisiana. She's like, oh, me too. And it's like, where I was like, I live in Silver Lake. She's like, that neighborhood. And she's like, oh, yeah, Like, I live next door, like, Echo Park. And I was like, oh. She's like, you could just come to my house and record the episode. I was like, so nervous. I was like, so it got to the point where I was. I think I had the zoom with the two mics, and at some point, I think I gave her the gear or something because I was like, I'm not going to do. I'm not going to do this better than you. So I was like, would you mind, like, you know, give me a hand here? But I recorded myself, like, walking on the gravel door and knocking, and it was cool. Like, it's fun. I can relate. You know, Definitely props to you for taking the effort to do that. It creates a different experience, especially when you start doing some of the panning. I don't know if you got it to that level, but what's your experience been like and what's the feedback been?

James Hammond [00:41:05]: Yeah, I do YouTube content, so I have a lot of video, which is sounds that I can just use. So it doesn't feel like a bit of a burden to get those sounds. But I do on purposely try and get the sounds I need. That's probably just an iPhone voice note. I'm just, like, holding a phone up, whatever that is. And I use that as a lot of my sounds. But I also use some, like, logic Pro loops because sometimes I might want a bird singing if I'm walking in the forest, but I don't have it. So I do occasionally chuck those in, but I also chuck in my own live vlogging. So it is a bit of a sense of a story and a journey about starting, end point and during, like, my reaction to this part of the episode. But what I'm trying to do is reduce it to only 10, 15 minutes, which is really difficult because I want it to be efficient, but also enough for you to want to maybe travel to that place or do that hike or whatever it is. But because of my music background, I find it okay. I don't find it too intimidating. The panning stuff. I do play around, but then I do worry about I could spend hours on it and days and weeks and nothing, whether to get out. So I'm like, well, I've got to get this new one out by the time I go next week. So this weekend I'll be really finishing that off, which is a road trip we've done to Washington State a few weeks ago. Yeah, it's. It's a lot of work, but I really enjoy it. So maybe that is an area I want to go into. And I'm keen to learn more about how I can make it better. And I think people like it. I've had some good feedback on the first. I only done the first one a few weeks ago. Well, a month ago.

Harry Duran [00:42:33]: Okay.

James Hammond [00:42:33]: But I don't think I'll do anything else now. I think that is me for my short form content. So.

Harry Duran [00:42:38]: Okay.

James Hammond [00:42:38]: Yeah, I'm looking forward to getting there, especially the traveling one out there. Let's see how that goes.

Harry Duran [00:42:42]: Yeah, yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. And so what's the future hold for you in the show? Like, where do you want to take it? If we're having this conversation 12 months from now and you look back, you know, what are some things that you'd want to have ticked off?

James Hammond [00:42:56]: Cool. Yeah. Well, let's start with the Central America episodes. That series, I want to get that off the ground in the new year.

Harry Duran [00:43:05]: Yeah.

James Hammond [00:43:05]: And then I'm going to join Voyascape Podcast Network. So let's see what that brings. That there's opportunities there for collaborations, but also collaborations with brands and also destinations. So there could be a. I'd love to do a destination podcast next year. There's some talks about who's interested in joining that network to create one. So let's see where that could be. But that could be South America or Caribbean. So I want to get one of those specifically done. That's not me driving it, but maybe someone else asking me to do that. And just as many guests that I feel contribute more quality. I'm not saying everyone else is not quality, but what I mean by that is I covered so much ground now and travel that I can go really granular. Like Colombia is not enough now. Like, let's talk about Medellin. Like, does someone come on and talk about that city or cut a hangout? Right. All these other places, let's go a bit more granular. So I think I'll be looking for more niche subjects with the guests next year. Not just a generic. I backpacked South America for six months. I love it, I've done it. But let's go a bit more niche and a bit more quality for the listener. So I think I'm, you know, in 12 months time, hopefully I have some real good content for you where I could tell you. Here's five episodes about specific subject that's really good that you might want to hear. So, yeah, maybe that's the aim. And of course it's continue to grow, continue to network. Go to the podcast movement in Dallas. I got my ticket already, so I'll be there.

Harry Duran [00:44:28]: Oh, good. Yeah, good, good, good. Yeah, I'll see you there.

James Hammond [00:44:30]: Yeah. So I'll be connecting with you again in person, but yeah, hopefully meet more people, learn more stuff.

Harry Duran [00:44:35]: Yeah, that's what happens because you go the second time, you'll meet, you know, a couple of people that you met the first time and you're like, you'll connect with them and then you'll start to grow. Yeah, it starts to become fun. What was your take on the podcasting community when you first were introduced to it? Because the feedback I usually hear from people as when they get started and they come from other sort of industries is like, everyone's pretty helpful, you know, and everyone, you know, wants to see you succeed and you're a pretty friendly lot.

James Hammond [00:44:57]: Yeah, collaborative is the word I'd use. I think we accept their space for everyone. I think that comes back to the previous conversation about we all have a different journey in the travel specific niche area. There's so I'd say very little podcast compared to the rest of the genres like news or sport or entertainment. I think we're kind of a small little pocket over there somewhere. But we are quite collaborative and quite friendly in a way to help each other. I think we all love travel, so I think that's a genuine love there. And podcasting as well. I'll tell you why we're a bit niche is because if you think of travel and content, what do you think of first? Most people probably say social media reels. Tick tock. They probably say YouTube. Fair enough. You're going to show what? Yeah, I'm going to show El Salvador as well.

Harry Duran [00:45:41]: Yeah.

James Hammond [00:45:42]: But people like, oh, you do a podcast and travel. And I think the real content there to really appeal is let's not give it away too much. Let's tell you what El Salvador is like and what I did and who I met and some sounds and some tips. But I want the imagination to not be completely gone. I want you to think, oh yeah, what else did he see? Like, should I go there? That's. I think that's the aim of a travel podcast is to get you thinking.

Harry Duran [00:46:08]: That's true.

James Hammond [00:46:08]: Well, I don't know what it looks like, so I need to go and see myself. Whereas YouTube, I don't watch YouTube. Travel, I don't watch travel YouTubers because I don't want to know what it looks like if I go tomorrow. Yeah. So I think that's the niche for travel podcasters to really hone in on.

Harry Duran [00:46:23]: I think I agree because I think there's something about the theater of the mind and that's where the soundscape comes in and you sort of close your eyes and you're just, like, listening to it. And also there's a bit of voyeurism and, you know, just this sense of adventure, like, awaits. Yeah. You know, so people who have like a. You know, unfortunately, people who may never travel may have a really, like, humdrum life, and they sort of, you know, that is an escape, you know, and they're like. And you get to take them on these, you know, trips, you know, virtually through your podcast experience, which is helpful as well.

James Hammond [00:46:56]: Yeah. I think the YouTube market is for those people who probably can't travel.

Harry Duran [00:46:59]: Yeah.

James Hammond [00:46:59]: Or it's really out there. Like, it's going to require some planning. And I think those guys get a lot of viewers because unfortunately, most people can't travel. Right. It's just that you can't. They're kind of living through them a little bit. But I think podcasting, I think maybe most listeners can travel, so kind of there for the tips, there for the ideas, and maybe therefore just not to be ruined by YouTube. Right. They want to think about what it looks like and then go and see themselves.

Harry Duran [00:47:23]: Yeah. Yeah. We've ever make it back to the uk. There's the podcast show in London, too.

James Hammond [00:47:28]: There is, yeah. It's on my list. I don't think I'll make it next year. It's normally April, isn't it?

Harry Duran [00:47:32]: I think so, yeah. That's on my list as well. I have a friend of mine that's involved with Sam Sethi, so. Okay, I'm gonna try to make that.

James Hammond [00:47:38]: I'd love to go next year, but I've got travelcon in March. I'm in the process of getting a Canadian passport, which confuses things as well. So. Yeah, I don't think I can commit to going next year, but maybe. Definitely the year after, I think.

Harry Duran [00:47:50]: Yeah. The second question that I usually ask us is, what is the most misunderstood thing about you?

James Hammond [00:47:58]: Mm. Misunderstood, I think people might think, hence the name of the podcast. Winging it. Do wing things and don't maybe work towards things, but actually day to day. If you ask my partner, she's like, you are relentless. Like, because I've done a weekly podcast for four years, if you do the math on that. What's that, 200 episodes? Well, I've done over 260 now, so it's more than one a week.

Harry Duran [00:48:25]: Yeah.

James Hammond [00:48:26]: And I think if you have seen my journey for the four years about how much I put into this podcast, and mostly for losing money. Yeah. I think that would surprise people because on the surface, they might just see me traveling about all the time and happy go lucky and, you know, just not living life normal way. Yeah, living life, but not in the normal way that people probably have a job at 9 to 5. But I do have that as well. I'm not just like an outlier. So I think misunderstood people misunderstanding me probably think that I just probably wing things and get lucky. But actually, deep down, I do work bloody hard, so that's probably the thing.

Harry Duran [00:48:59]: I'd say you've made that perfectly clear. I think during this conversation, and I think the results speak for themselves. I mean, you can't get, like you said to your point to four years and the hundreds of episodes without being consistent, learning from your mistakes and sort of following the trends of what's working, what's not, being able to, like, try new things, getting out to conferences. So I think you're doing the right things. And I think, you know, slow and steady wins the race. And obviously, you know, it's not all glamorous because people probably think travel podcaster lives a glamorous life. But, you know, I think over the years you've shown takes a bit more work and it's probably discouraging for some who just think it's going to be all fun.

James Hammond [00:49:35]: Absolutely. And it took me three and a half years to get anywhere near any money for the podcast, so just bear that in mind. But by the stats I was given a few minutes ago, that's a lot of episodes and a lot of hours. So not all rosy, but if you do the hard yards, I think it will come good if you stick at it.

Harry Duran [00:49:52]: Yeah. And that's a perfect bow for this conversation. Thanks so much, James, for coming on and thank you for again for attending the talk. You know, you never know who's going to show up and where people are coming from. And so I'm thankful to podcast movement to give another opportunity to be on the stage and just to kind of share. I just love sharing my journey because it's been a while, 10 years, and it's glad to see it's been helpful and I'm always glad because I've had a couple of conversations with people that attended the talk that came on, and so it's always a good opportunity. I'm glad I got to share your story with my listeners now.

James Hammond [00:50:19]: I really appreciate you inviting me on. It's been a great chat and hopefully I'll see you talk again in Dallas. Are you talk?

Harry Duran [00:50:25]: I'll be submitting something. I got to get creative every time, so see if they accept it.

James Hammond [00:50:29]: Amazing. About to submit my first talking gig for travelcon in March. So I'm going to submit that before I go away. So let's see if I can join you in the on the stage, on an event and we can share some tips or.

Harry Duran [00:50:40]: Yeah.

James Hammond [00:50:40]: See how it goes. Yeah, yeah.

Harry Duran [00:50:42]: Where's the best place to send folks to learn more about the show or connect with you?

James Hammond [00:50:45]: Yeah, I do have a website, Wigginit TravelPodcast.com that has everything you need to know. The same handle for Instagram, tick tock and YouTube. And if you want to email me, James Hammond, travelmail.com and we trial podcasts on all the classic ones, Apple podcasts, Spotify and YouTube. I do have a vlog if you want to do video stuff as Roaming with hammer, that's on YouTube as well. So that's probably best.

Harry Duran [00:51:11]: I think you provided all those links. If any of those missed in the onboarding form, just send them over. We'll make sure they're all in the.

James Hammond [00:51:16]: Show notes, of course. No worries.

Harry Duran [00:51:18]: I appreciate your time, James.

James Hammond [00:51:19]: Cheers, dude. Thank you.