359 Alex Sanfilippo - Mastering Podcast Interviews: Insights from Podmatch Founder

Harry Duran [00:00:00]: So, Alex Amphalippo, my friend, thank you so much for a return engagement on Podcast Junkies.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:00:04]: Harry, thank you so much for having me, man. I'm really honored to be here. Love what you do, man. I've been following you since, I think since we met. It's been like four or five years or, sorry, since 2020 or something like that, maybe. So it's been fun.

Harry Duran [00:00:15]: 2020, is that. When did PodMatch start?

Alex Sanfilippo [00:00:18]: It started in 2020, and June 15, 2020, was like our launch date. But I'm certain I met you before then. I don't even know where or how, but somehow I was probably listening to your podcast and reached out, is probably what happened. Cause I liked it, so.

Harry Duran [00:00:30]: And so I'll make sure we provide links to our first conversation where people can hear the origin story of podmatch, how you got started. But I think what was interesting for me and what I want to dive into is how you're always sort of trying new ideas, and then a couple of months ago, sort of had an aha moment that maybe all those ideas were taking away from your time and your core offer. So talk about, you know, since our last conversation, the latest update on podmatch, and then walk us through, you know that I think you know which post I'm talking about.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:00:58]: Oh, I know exactly you're talking about. As I was writing this post, everybody who's hearing this, I remembered wise words from my friend named Harry, who happens to be in the room with me right now. We were sitting at a table in Los Angeles is where we were, and you told me, hey, dude, that direction is the wrong direction. Like, straight up, like, as a real friend. I was like, no, dude, I think it's good. You're like, dude, I know you're not going to want to do this. I was like, no, no, it's the right thing. It's going to serve people well. Right? Like, And I was like, very stuck in my way. So when I was writing the post that we're about to talk about, I was like, do I have to admit Harry was right? Or should like, like, what do we do here? And I saw you in D.C. probably a couple weeks after I posted it, and I was like, hey, man, really should have listened to you. So the post that you're referring to and what kind of happened is we launched Pod Match. And again, you can kind of go back and hear the story of that. For anyone who doesn't know, it's a service that connects podcast guests and hosts for interviews, works really similar to a dating app, but set of candy for dates, connects for podcast interviews. And we've just done a really good job of, like, filling in all the gaps in between that. Right? You can message on the platform, schedule all kinds of fun things. But I got a little overly ambitious. I was like, man, everyone wants more. Right? There's that word. Everyone wants more. I'm like, oh, man, could we launch something else? And so we launched something called Podcast sop, which stands for standard Operating Procedure. So it's like project management software for podcasters. We launched something called Podcast Lottery, Pod Lottery. And the idea of that was that you can, like, do, like, review swaps. We launched a spot. People were like, oh, man, you always wear cool shirts. We were just making them. I'm like, oh, put it on the store and we'll just give them away at cost, right? Like, so there was that. There was a separate blog we started, something called Pod Pros, which was like, quote unquote, the parent organization for it, and about five other things that now are all slipping my mind. But, yeah, that's kind of what ended up happening. It was all things people were asking for. And I think that maybe they were serving on some small level, each in their own unique way, but not like podmatch was. So that's kind of where in the post kind of came in when I realized, okay, this was not the right direction to go. Deep down, like, my heart was right in it, Harry, as you know, like, when we talked about sitting at that table in la, which I'll never forget that moment because I go back to it now as it being a very helpful time for me. But I realized that the execution was wrong. What I was ultimately doing was causing people to be confused. People knew me as Pod Match, not as all these other things as well. And people always like, so what do you do? And my least favorite thing wasn't even that question. My least favorite thing was people say, this is Alex, he does everything. And I'm like, I don't want to be the everything guy. Like, even if it's everything in podcasting, I don't want that reputation. Because I feel like the person who does everything doesn't really do anything often. And so anyway, so I kind of post this whole thing, just transparently saying, hey, everybody, we're going to cut back down to just Pod Match. Some of this stuff will just get sunset. Some of it will be put inside of Pod Match, like, we'll bring it inside of it. And so we've just been doing that One at a time. And we started at the beginning of the year in 2024. And I knew it would take a long time to be able to do that. So we've just continued just chipping away at it. And some of it took months, some of it might take years.

Harry Duran [00:03:52]: Right.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:03:53]: But we've just been doing that and doing our best to make sure that it's not cutting anyone off, not like screwing anyone over. Right. We want it to still be somehow serving them. So we're trying to still picking and choosing what goes where. But I'll tell you what, since doing that, like already people just like instantly get it. They're like, I get what Alex does, I get what PodMatch does. So that's the post that you're referring to and kind of the journey of it right now.

Harry Duran [00:04:15]: I think it was so interesting that is that it resonates with some of the stuff that I've been reading lately. There's a book I'm into right now called 10x is easier than 2x. It's by Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan, who's like a super OG in like the direct marketing space. Anyone who's Internet marketing probably knows about him or has heard about him. He's the founder of Strategic Coach. And what's fascinating about that concept is that the premise, when, you know, people think to move from a 2x to a 10x improvement means you gotta do five times the work. But really one of the things that's interesting in the book is this idea of find a couple of things. One is finding your unique ability. So what is the one thing that you do really well, which it seems like you realize, hey, let's do the pod match thing. Cause we're really excelling at that. And then the other thing is like getting rid of 80% of the stuff that you're normally doing. And it sounds like, you know, those two things were in play because, you know, While the other 80% seems like it's working towards your ultimate goal, if you're going to have that really like exponential growth, it sounds counterintuitive to most people, especially to business owners who just like you. I just have shiny object syndrome. And there's new opportunities and new ideas and things we can try. And I'm always like that marketing brain is always kicking in high gear. So I think it's been helpful for me to like tone down the things that I'm working on, unsubscribe to stuff that I think I might be interested in. One of my coaches, Taki Mori, Talks about just in time learning versus just in case learning. Because I've been guilty of that. Just like, oh, this course and that course, and I'll just like grab that as well. So it seems like, you know, maybe not specifically those things you were thinking of, but a lot of those principles it seemed like you applied to that decision making process.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:05:48]: I did. And by the way, I really like that just in time learning instead of just in case. I think that's good advice for all of us podcasters to hear, right? Because I think many of us are guilty of, like, I bought all these things, I've never used them. Right. Caused a lot of overwhelm. So thank you for that. But you're absolutely right. I mean, like, since we've made this change and we're still in some ways, like, in it not as much as we were, I can already just, I feel more aligned, so. And it's not all about the feeling, right? Like, a business is not only feeling, but, like, that goes a long way. As a founder, like, I feel more aligned. I know how I show up. I can articulate it so much better. There's no and I do this, or if you're this, I do that. Right? There's none of this. It's just strictly, here's exactly what I do and how I can show up and how I might be able to serve you. And so, again, from an alignment standpoint and from how people understand the perception of what we do is so much better. There's no Alex does everything. It's now very precise, it's very intentional. And we've seen it in the business growth as well. Like when we had all the things like you just said, like, I think many of us were like, oh, if I do, more people will see it. But the reality is if you do less and just go deeper with it, it goes so much further. And we're seeing it happen and in ways like it doesn't make sense, right? Like, it just doesn't. You think multiplication versus addition when you think this way. But the reality is, the more narrow focused I've gotten, the better it's done. And so, like, even the podcast, like, at one point, going back to when we first met, I had a podcast about entrepreneurship, which was cool, I loved it, it was a good show, had great listenership. And when I shifted that to be about podcasting, helping guest and hosts specifically, like, it's heavy on the education side of how to get better as a guest or host in very specific ways, which is exactly our audience. So Much more aligned, the listenership smaller. But does it actually grow our business organically? Yes, it does. And so, man, these things, like from that alignment standpoint, from people understanding, it's been absolutely huge and we're seeing it on our bottom line in like a really big way.

Harry Duran [00:07:39]: So what's the latest update in terms of the membership or growth or whatever numbers you're okay with sharing? Because I'm interested in. Cause it's probably growing a lot since we had all that conversation.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:07:47]: Yeah, I share like my favorite numbers are on the homepage of PodMatch, which everyone, like most people, laugh at. They're like, you're a software founder who's not logging into a dashboard. I just go the homepage. So I'm looking at it right now at time of us recording this, my favorite thing is that we just surpassed a hundred thousand episodes that have been released through PodMatch, people using PodMatch. But that's specifically only among our active members. So like when someone's inactive, we don't track them in the numbers anymore because we like to really focus on active. And active means they've used Pod Match in the last 45 days. So a lot more people have like memberships. Again, the homepage we want to show is just who's using this thing today, more or less, right? Plus 44 days. And so by a hundred thousand episodes getting released, man, when I launched that was like, it wasn't even a goal, it was the dream. I was like, wouldn't it be cool if we could help a hundred thousand podcast episodes like get released, like interview episodes? And the fact that we pass that is huge for me. So also at time recording right now we've got just under 13,000 people using the platform again within the last 45 days that are logging in, using it. And then I always like to look at how many interviews happened in the last 24 hours, which is also there. So it says 217booked in the last 24 hours. And that's cool. It's like, man, that's great. Oh, why that's overnight? Cuz it's so global. It's like, man, you wake up the next day and like seeing those numbers, like wow, people are using this and it's doing a lot and to me it's just really cool. So those are kind of like the main numbers I look at off the top of my head, I'm going to get this number wrong. So forgive me, but I think there's something like 55,000 people total who use Pod Match. As recordings, we're that time of year where a lot of people are like, I've got my backlog. I'm not going to log in for 90 days, you know? Right. So. But I'm incredibly grateful for everyone who uses and trusts us with their podcasting. Like, the way that we kind of help them. It's truly a gift. And those are kind of the big metrics I look at. And if I can answer more, I'm happy to. I might not know, but I'll give it a shot. There's more. You want to hear What I also.

Harry Duran [00:09:30]: Noticed, you know, because I follow you on social, and I noticed you also purged your database recently as well.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:09:35]: Yeah, we do that on an ongoing basis, which is not as fun to share on social media. Right. So, like, when we do, like, when we make a change to it, I kind of like to how we do a purge. I share that. My dream is to only have the people that are active on podmatch using it and paying for it. Like, I know that sounds really counterintuitive for a software company that wants more subscriptions, right. Because it's a monthly subscription. But for me, I'm like, man, I don't want people's money if they're not going to use it for eight months. Like, what's the point? That doesn't help them. It doesn't help us if that's. If people are trying to message them. Right. Like, and so, yeah, we do a little bit of purging, and the purging comes of people that are completely inactive. Or we also have, like, a few ways people can, like, report abuse. The system can do some automatically. An example, if somebody's just not showing up to interviews, like, they're a guest or a host, right. And they're just never showing up, and they're showing that they're very unreliable. We will reach out. We don't just delete people, but we basically are like, hey, is something going on? And it's like, oh, no, I just forgot. It's for us. We actually. We cancel those people's subscriptions and remove them from our platform. And sometimes it makes people really angry. I'll be real. Often they don't even notice. Right. Like, I'm like, man, would you have noticed if I just left your credit card getting billed for all of eternity? But the thing is, like, we purge because we want it to be a collaborative community that respects each other, that are on the platform, and to be very active. Like, I've never had the desire to build Like, a really big business. I just want a business that has a lot of impact and really helps and serves people. I love podcasting like you. I mean, I love this space. I, like, I want to do really well by the space because I believe in the medium so much.

Harry Duran [00:11:03]: So, you know, you talk about your love for podcasting and you know, how you're doing this because of the value it's providing and, you know, the. How you want to serve these podcasters. Let's talk a little bit about this because people, like I said, we touched upon it, I think, in our first conversation. But what drives you, you know, what's. If you think about your North Star, your mission, your values, you know, I get the sense from all the conversations we've had that in the meetups and our talks that this is something that's really at the heart of who you are as a person and in your core. And I'd just love for you to kind of share some of those values with our listeners.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:11:35]: Yeah, man, thanks for the opportunity to share that. I don't think. I don't think I've been asked that. So thank you for the opportunity, man. More of just your expertise of being in podcasting since the beginning of time, I guess. But there's a handful of things, you know, and the first one I'll share is when I was growing up, I had a learning disability that was, like, it really crippled me for a while from, like, just being able to read, write, and to comprehend. Like, it was a struggle for me. And, like, I can just remember, like, when I started really comprehending this idea of learning, which sounds weird for most people, like, when it started clicking and making sense. And I kind of grew through a lot of this. I just remember always feeling like it was a gift to be able to learn something. And still to this day, I cherish the idea of learning. Like you said, though, I'm not one who just learns for things for just in case. Like, I like to learn things with a purpose. And that's kind of just been natural for me because it doesn't come as easy to me or didn't for a long time. So I'm very intentional if I'm going to learn. And when I discovered the medium of podcasting as a listener years before, I got into it. Like, I don't know how to describe it other than the fact that I felt like I was at home when it came to learning. Like, if there was something that was, like, the pinnacle of the way that Alex Sanfilippo myself was Able to comprehend it was the meaning of podcasting. I could be in the gym, I could be cleaning, I could be going for a walk and listening to exactly what I needed to hear. And my retention, I feel like, just went through the roof from that. And so for me, podcasting was kind of like a saving grace a little bit when it comes to just the way that I was able to learn and to grow. And I'm thankful, like, there's really no learning disabilities for me at all anymore in any of the mediums. But if I have a choice, there's a podcast episode on it. I'm going to pick that over anything. And that's just kind of been my pace. I think that is the first thing I shared. I just like that I'll share is just I have this kind of. This respect for what podcasting is and the way that information is delivered. Like, I love to learn that way. Beyond that, I have some core convictions. I'm a person of faith. I believe in Jesus from the Bible. And so loving and serving people is at the core of who I am. And I've just seen that modeled for me as someone who has not always been a great person. Kind of went through some rough years, my late teens, early 20s. Just didn't respect humanity and other people. And I did a full 180just because people love me. And I felt like I had that relationship with Jesus. And so for me, like, I show up the way I'd want to be served. I show up to love others, because I just feel like we live in a world, especially in the software space, where they're just. I don't know, there's not a lot of, like, people caring about people in the background of it. I'm not trying to be rude. There's plenty of companies that do this really well. But I just knew that, you know what, maybe there's a different standard, a different way we can show up and really, again, just serve people and love them really well. And so those are some of the things I'll share with that. And again, thank you for letting me even talk about that stuff.

Harry Duran [00:14:11]: No, I think it's important, and I think we're moving into a phase where this is becoming more like, top of mind. And I was just listening to the Joe Rogan episode with Julian Lennon, and, you know, I'm a child of the 80s, so obviously, you know, right when, you know, John Lennon was assassinated and, you know, like, kind of living energetically through that phase and then just seeing what his son, what he must have gone through to have the weight of, like, a father like John Lennon, you know, in terms of, like, legacy and trying to live up to that. So. But what was fascinating from a podcast perspective is to hear a how Joe managed that interview. I think he did a fantastic job, but one of the things that Julian said is, like, his father told him, his father, John Lennon said. He's like, if there's ever a way I can get back in touch with you or connect with you, I'll send you a signal. It's going to be in the form of like, a white feather. And he, Julian shares this fantastic story. I don't want to give away too much because I, as with podcasts, I'd love people to go listen to them. I don't want to give it all away. But basically something happened in Julian's life where you know, related to, like, receiving that exact signal, and him and Joe are just having a conversation about just like, look, whatever you believe or not, like, that sign is so strong to like, you know, to know that there's something else happening. And I don't think it's something that we can always put a name to, you know, whether you call it, like, higher self, spirit, God, Jesus, like the universe, you know, I think people are just giving different names to the same energy. And I think we're seeing more of an awakening of people being. Being comfortable in their own skin. And to talk about this sort of stuff. I talked about it a couple years ago. I was coming out of the spiritual closet because I was just like, man, I love all this stuff. I love, you know, all the rabbit holes, you know, on these topics, you know, the Graham Hancock stuff, the ancient civilization stuff. Like, all this stuff, like, fascinates me. I'm into like, multiple, multiple dimensions now. I'm just studying, like, quantum computing. It's just like. But there's all this speaks to this idea of something happening that's bigger than us. And I think the more we talk about it and the more we normalize these conversations, I think it's going to be better for all of us.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:16:10]: Man, I love that you brought that up. And I appreciate the fact that you kind of like, decided to just start sharing that stuff. And it reminds me of a conversation you had. And I wrote this down because I wanted to remember it because I knew that was at some point I had to be able to bring this up because it was such a good episode of your show. It aired on July 19, 2024. Revolutionizing audio Oscar Zenders Surrender yeah, Wondercraft Vision. You all talked about how like more than ever people want to connect with another human being. Even in tech, even in podcasting, software, wherever it is, people want to know what the person behind it believes or at least what they're even exploring. And you, I think you all did a good job like talking through that idea. And I encourage everyone again, go back and please listen to that episode. Like pause this one or listen, cue it up for after this, whatever you gotta do. But. July 19, 2024 Revolutionizing audio. Totally worth listening to, so thank you for that. But the point is just that like as humans, there's no sense in like trying to hide this stuff, right? And the thing is like when I mentioned that I'm a follower of Jesus, some people immediately like, absolutely, I'll never do anything with you. I'm like, that's fine, but like, isn't it better that we know, right? Like let's put the cards on the table here. And so for me, like I admit I'm not for everybody. I never like push my beliefs or anything like that, or my convictions in any means. But like I'm just going to do my best to be human. And yeah, I'm in software but like there shouldn't be this thing where like no one knows who's behind it. Right? I feel like that I'm hoping that time, the world is sort of ending. Like people like to know that oh, there's a person who actually does this and guess what? They have beliefs that they're exploring of their own. I think that's kind of the beauty of humanity. And I love that you brought up the fact that like we're kind of coming up to the idea that this is okay, right? Like this is something we're all like starting to do. That makes me excited about the future.

Harry Duran [00:17:47]: Yeah, I think people moving to the, to a phase where people do business with people. It's human to human because people talk about B2B, B2C and all these other. It's like now we're at the point it's like human to human. And I think creators are realizing that and they're moving more towards creating platforms that reflect their personalities. And I think that's what's gonna happen and we're all gonna have like businesses of one where people are connecting to individuals because of their belief system. And I always say, Lincoln, sometimes in some of the stuff that I'm posting, you need to repel people as fast as you attract them. Cuz it's to your point, like it's People that are resonate with your message and the people that don't. It's people that probably you don't want like following you or trolling you later on down the line. And obviously you get big enough, as everyone knows, you'll get the trolls and you'll get the haters. But I think dialing into your message and it's, I wonder, you know, to what extent you've seen this, but the more you dial into your message and the more you dial into your beliefs and the more you talk about the stuff that, that empowers you, I get the sense that there's people that maybe come out of the woodwork or people that maybe haven't connected you. But because of that messaging, they're like, hey, like Alex is the guy in terms of like, you know, who I want to connect with and who I want to see more of.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:18:59]: I've got a great example of this actually and it kind of segues a little bit. But real quick, do you use Reddit at all? Are you on Reddit?

Harry Duran [00:19:05]: Occasionally. I've been trying to like selectively go in there because at some point, you know, it's just one more rabbit hole if you're not careful.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:19:11]: I always say Reddit is a dangerous place. So like I don't use it much, but that's where people go to argue about me and I don't know why. So like I get these notifications because we have like all these things set up for our reputation management. So sometimes I see it, I'm like, people are like, he's an AI. Like, I heard he's not human. I heard he's like. And all this stuff, I'm like, do I say something here? Like, but the point of that is like some people, they get immediately triggered by me to this whole attract and repel thing. I think the way that we've done that better than anything else is Pod Match is a subscription based service. There is no free trial, there is no using it without paying for it. It's like the first thing I ask you to do. And every day I get advice to not do that. And every day I meet people that are like, this is genius. I signed up because I know it's going to be good because it's like a country club, right? Like you're pre vetting everyone the same time. People are like, wow, you're an idiot. You're never going to get anyone to ever sign up. Like both sides. Like every day I get both sides. I've just learned that like, you know What? Let's not make a gray area. Like, let's just figure this out real quick, right? I don't know. You've been in a relationship for a bit. I have as well. But like, we've all been through a phase where dating someone, you're like trying to like, can we label this? And sometimes you feel like this is lingering, like, hey, what's. Finally you hit that moment where you're like, what's the deal here? Right? I just want to hit that what's the deal moment immediately instead of like six months down the road. It's been great for us and I know that there's probably a case for having some sort of trial, but the reality is, I'm like, man, we know the value we provide. There's testimonials everywhere. We have a money back guarantee. If you end up hating it, like, give us a shot, right? And some people are like, yeah, I like that a lot. Others are like, this is the worst thing I've ever heard in my life. And I kind of like it being that way. That attract and repel thing is huge.

Harry Duran [00:20:47]: How big is the team now?

Alex Sanfilippo [00:20:49]: The team is smaller.

Harry Duran [00:20:51]: Okay, that's great.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:20:52]: Which, because we were doing more, the team has shrunk. So there's three full time people, three partners. Me, Alicia, my wife, who is like, basically operates as like a COO and then member support. And then Jesse is the technical co founder who's on the development side. And then we've got one, we have four people that are like very part time virtual assistant w nines basically that are helping along the way as well. But we were kind of starting to ramp up and we had all those things. And then I was like, wait a minute. I remember my friend Harry said this was a bad idea. We got to turn it around. And we actually ended up kind of shrinking down the team quite a bit. So we really like keeping it small. I came from like big corporate and stuff and I have nothing wrong with that. I managed really big teams, so I know I'm capable of doing it. But we really like the culture that it has right now, the community it has in our involvement. And none of us are overwhelmed in any way. Like, I don't overwork and the other two don't either. And so we're going to just kind of keep it small for as long as we can so we can have this like, very intimate community with the group that's trusting us.

Harry Duran [00:21:48]: What's the biggest size team you ever managed?

Alex Sanfilippo [00:21:51]: That's a great question. I don't know, 50 people or something maybe. I guess in volunteer settings I had. Actually, it's funny, in volunteer settings. I was also like leading volunteers at church at one point, which was maybe harder because you're not paying them. At one point I was doing that. We must have had a couple hundred people that I was managing. But in professional setting, less than 50. But probably around that number was like kind of what I was responsible for at one point, but not directly. Five is the most I've ever directly. Or four maybe is the most I've ever directly. Like they have worked under me.

Harry Duran [00:22:18]: Yeah, you get to that level of management in corporate and you start to talk about middle management and layers and reporting to people. And I'm sure you don't miss creating and writing up the performance reports every year, man.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:22:30]: You know, I really don't. And by the way, like, I worked my way up to C suite in corporate America. It was a public company. It was like a multibillion dollar organization. It was a gift to be there. The hardest job I had there was that middle management level who you do not get paid enough. Like anyone who's like, has that corporate job, man, I feel for you. But it does build character.

Harry Duran [00:22:48]: Yeah, for sure. How does that affected you or when you look back on it, how has that influenced you now as the leader of this company?

Alex Sanfilippo [00:22:56]: Yeah, it influenced me in a lot of like, negative and positive, like ways. First off, when I first started doing this entrepreneurship thing, like my emails were really bad because I came from big corporate where you had to like think red tape, right? So like I wrote in an email in a certain way that now you would just say, is AI going back to 2019, 2020, when I was starting this, no one blamed it on AI, but they're like, what do you want? Like, ugh, you know, like, it probably.

Harry Duran [00:23:21]: Didn'T help to image people had of AI Alex either, right?

Alex Sanfilippo [00:23:26]: Oh, for sure. Definitely not. So my emails were just very stiff, very cold. And that's one way it didn't serve me at all. But a way that it did serve me was just understanding how to like to really motivate people and encourage them and have their best interest in mind. I learned that stuff in corporate and so like a lot of my management style, like I learned to just like, hey, this doesn't just have to be management. This can just be how you love and serve people. And so that was huge. And then the other one I'll mention is just my work ethic. I'm still to this day, people are like, my friends are always like, do you ever sleep in? I'm like, yeah, my day off. Like, they're like, when did you decide your day off is me? Can't you just take any day off? And I'm like, no, because I know there should be a structure, there should be a system, right? And so all that I really owe to corporate. So, like, I have this really great grounded work ethic. Like, it's a great foundation for me. It served me really well. I know when to work and also when not to work. I have very clear lines on both of those things. I did corporate for 15 years and I loved it. Like, the last day I left, I cried when I walked out the door. Cause I was like, sad to leave it to do this. But like, this is. I can tell you if there's something I was put on the earth to do, it's what I'm doing right now. Like, I love this. So I'm not saying I wish I could go back. I'm just saying I really enjoyed that time. I took a lot of very small lessons, a lot of very big lessons learned along the way.

Harry Duran [00:24:35]: So let's talk about the state of podcast interviewing. Cause it seems you got a front row seat to what's happening, what's working, what's not. And I think when people think about starting a show, you know, one of the first decisions they make and one of the first conversations we have with new clients is like, what are you going to do for content? Are you going to do solo or are you going to do interview based? And you know, a lot of what we do for our clients is interview based shows. And I think people underestimate what it takes to be a good interviewer, but also what's involved in like vetting guests and getting people on the show and being on other people's shows. So I'm curious, you know, state of the Union type report. I don't know if you've thought about putting anything together about the state of podcast interviews, but given that you have that front row seat into what's happening and who of your clients are having like, or your folks are having the most success, I'm curious what people can learn from the experiences you had.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:25:24]: Well, I wrote that down. The state of podcast interviews. I probably should have thought of that. But here we are. You mentioned interview shows. That's my favorite format to consume, to record, to just that human to human connection. Right? Like it doesn't matter if you're in person or remote. Like it exists. It's There. Right. And for me, I like doing solo episodes as well, but I've learned that to be really short because I really only share facts and write this down. Moments and let's kind of hit. So it just turns into a lot when I have a conversation. It's fun and people can, like, hear more of my personality. Like today, like, we're hanging, we're two friends hanging out, right? And just trying to share as much valuable information as we can for people. And that to me is fun. So. But like, you actually brought it up already. But not everyone's good at it. And so I think that the biggest fault I see right now in people that are doing an interview based podcast is they're too married to their plan for the episode. Their questions that they need to ask. So much so that they're willing to go really long on the episode because they need to get them all in. Or they're willing to go really short if someone goes through them. But those are the questions, right. Or if they can feel the conversation going in a different way. Like a great example of this, Harry, is what you did just a few minutes ago. Like, my core beliefs we kind of got into. Right. Like my upbringing a little bit like that. I don't think that that was planned. It felt very natural as it came up. You heard it and you're like, that's something we should go down. But I don't think a lot of hosts do that. And maybe it's a place of not knowing they should or fear or trying to keep it on a very specific track. I don't know what it is, but I think that if hosts could learn to let go a little bit, like maybe, yes, have a plan, do your research, but, like, be willing to, like, not be married to that. I think that alone goes a long way. Because some interviews I listen to, although it's good content and that's again, my primary way of learning, I can tell it feels stiff or forced or like, this just didn't seem like a natural story throughout. And that's probably the best way to say it. It should feel like a story.

Harry Duran [00:27:18]: Yeah.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:27:19]: Like it doesn't need to have like the highs and lows and like all the what happened next. Right. But it should feel like a narrative that you're walking through, not just like, okay, you played sports growing up. Tell me about that now. Right. Like, if that was your next question, Harry, I hope it's not going to be right. But that doesn't really flow well. And to me that's huge. But I'd actually love to hear your thoughts because you're at the forefront of this as well. Like, what's one thing you got? And I'll jump bang after that, if that's cool.

Harry Duran [00:27:41]: Yeah, of course. I think it just comes with time. I'm at 500 probably interviews between my two shows, this one and Vertical Farming Podcast. And I think what was interesting is understanding early on to ditch the questions, like you said. You know, I talk about this a lot. I had an interview with John Lee Dumas and he only gives 30 minutes, so you had to like, figure out real quick. Like, I knew the format wasn't going to work, and I'm just like, hey, what's going on? Just like, what's happening? How you doing? How's everything going? And it was just flowed so smoothly. And then I just started to realize over the years, you know, and I think I just. This came intuitively or I just heard someone say this idea that there's three people in a podcast conversation. The host, the guest, and the listener. And it's a listener singular. Like there's one person listening to us or watching us right now. And I'm conscious of that because they're also paying attention and saying, oh, he just mentioned something about values. You know, he's got. He's wearing a shirt that says lead with value. And I'm just like, maybe that's something that's a topic you could talk about. And so I'm always have an ear out, four threads to pull, you know, as I like to call them, and just listening. And I'm conscious of like, what I'm interested. So following my own curiosity is usually the, like, the best result because I sort of inherently have the listener's profile in mind already. So it's embedded in me just from doing this, you know, year after year, 10 years in this year. And so I'm almost like speaking for the listener as well, you know. And that's why when I started the second show, Vertical Farming podcast, I had zero experience or understanding of the industry and I was speaking to CEOs, so just to make things even more challenging and sweat inducing, you're just like talking to the CEO of a company. And you really don't know a lot about the industry. But I realized over the years that sometimes they're more nervous than I was because they're just being put on the spot. And I'm curious about origin stories and how people got started, and that was the origin for this show. Like, how did you start your podcast? And I Realized the best way to learn about an industry is just ask the people who are at the forefront of it. And, you know, coming full circle, human to human, right? We're just, like, connecting on a normal level. And it doesn't sound forced, and it just sounds like the listener just pulled up a stool. And while we're in the bar having a drink and they're just listening to.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:29:45]: Us having a chat, you know, something you. I want to kind of turn it back on now is this idea of the listener, right? When I talk to a lot of hosts about their listeners or your listener, who is it? And people go immediately into, well, I'm in 95 countries, and people age average this. It skews more male than female. Listen, you're right. We gotta think singular listener. If someone's like, I know this guy Alex. He's about 5 11, he weighs about 165. It's like, why are you sharing those random facts? What I would want you to know is, this is my friend Alex. He really cares about people. Like, that's why I want someone to share. And I think that one of the other issues, aside from, like, just our interview skills, right, Which I'm glad we kind of both touched on a bit, is also this idea of who it is that's actually going to be listening and how well do you know them? So it's like, yeah, be good at interviewing. Have a. Be good conversationalist. Like, don't be married to the direction. Know when to dive deep. Like, work on that. But also in your mind, you should be thinking about the person that you say, this is who I know listens to it. And what I know is interesting to them. Because in the day, if we're just making it based off of assumptions or guesses, right? Like, that's not good. Like, and I found the only way to do that. Like, the best hosts in my mind are the ones that actually talk to their listeners. And you mentioned jld, John Lee Dumas. To my knowledge, he still occasionally talks to his listeners. Just random people to listen because he wants to hear what they think he wants to be in their mind. And I'm like, someone with millions of people listening every week, like, or every month, whatever it is. Like, that sounds wild. And a lot of people are like, oh, I don't have time to talk to my listeners. I'm like, you have 30 people listening. Like, talk to one of them. Just see what they think. Right. A great example of this is I'm not saying that podcasts need to be longer or shorter. But I had an entrepreneurship show going back to the later 2000 and tens, and I finally started talking to my listeners and I kept on hearing that the episodes were too long. Their commute was only 30 to 35 minutes. I kept on hearing, I was like, my goodness, man, like, it's so annoying. I was like, wait a minute, is that. Should my episodes be that long? And so I looked at the data and I. I found that 70% of people cut off at. Or sorry, people all cut off at the 70% mark. And they're 55 minute episodes. I dropped it 35 and people almost finished every episode. Moving forward, I didn't know that if I didn't talk to my listeners. And yes, your data can tell you some of it, but, like, get to know who's listening. When you know that person intimately and really well. You can do really good in podcasting. Like, you almost can't fail if you know who it is that you're making it for. And it can't be everybody, by the way. That's not a valid answer.

Harry Duran [00:32:04]: Yeah. So there's folks on your platform that have had really good success in terms of like, there's probably like, you. I don't know if there's a leaderboard of like, most booked interviews and do you have like, conversations with those folks in terms of like, what's the best way to make use of a tool like podmatch? Because I know people, I've jumped in and out and, you know, sometimes it's. I've got a lot on my plate, so I'm. I probably am not doing a service to all the different ways you should be using it in terms of like, best practices. So if people are new to the platform and they want to maximize it, and there's probably a different approach if you want to have guests on your show. And as opposed to just, you know, there's probably a different leader as opposed to someone who's been on the most shows and someone who has had the most guests on their show. So wondering if maybe you could kind of talk a little bit about what works for the people that have had the most success in those two fields.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:32:55]: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I do talk to all the people, like at the top of those lists for sure, But I don't talk to them as much as people that are slightly below that because I found those people, they already know it all. And most of them, they're like, I can learn from them in podcasting because although, like, I've had a Weekly show for a really long time. Some of these people, they do five days a week, and they've just got a system and a team built in. Like, I don't know what I'm supposed to teach that person, right? And like, the way they use Pod Match is actually really unique in comparison. They've got like multiple people in there that, oh, this person's responsible for this element. I'm like, okay, that's not gonna help me figure out how to build that thing. So I look for kind of like the next level of like, hey, it's just me. One day maybe I'll have a virtual assistant. I release one episode every week. Sometimes I miss a week, right? Like, I'm like, cool. You I might be able to do something with. Right? So those are people I go for to help. And I always tell them, like, Pod Match's system, we built it in a way that it will direct you on how to use it. Listen, you don't need to use Pod Match to find all your guests. I tell people that all the time. Like, if you know someone, you want the show they're on. PodMatch, fine. We have a lot of shows that say they're exclusive because they like the system. And once you learn it, I think that's the selling point for me. So example, like, if you're a host and you do pre interviews, you can flag your show as a pre interview required show. Give the link to where someone can book it or fill out a form they can fill, put it all in there. And we tell guests before they even message you, this person requires a form to be filled out. They require pre interview. It's video and audio. It's gonna be about 60 minutes. Right? Like, we tell them this or if they don't have that, it tells them the same thing, right? It just explains if you're the host. Like, actually filling in all that information goes a long way. So, example, like today I was booking with a host that has a pre interview, a form which I knew. So I hit yes, I want to match with this person. They messaged me. Sure, it's cool. Here, fill out this form. Great. Now fill out this release form, get all that filled out, and then schedule your pre interview call. And as soon as we do that, it'll automatically roll to. Now use this link to book the full interview. And that host doesn't have to touch anything in that process. Like, nothing has to happen for all that to go through, other than the fact that they need to say, yeah, the pre interview went well. Let's move forward. Right? It's one button, and so that's huge. And then inside of podmatch, we have what we call a match alignment. Now we do use a little bit AI in there, so it shows like, hey, Alex and Harry, here's where we see overlap in your two experiences and how you might be able to show up. And then as the host, we give host ideas for interview questions. We even say, we say, don't use these questions directly. But, like, here's what Harry believes at his core, right? Or here's like his, like, agenda, his mission. Here's some things you can ask him. Here's what the listeners will love. The flip side, the same thing we tell the guest, hey, here's how you should show up for your host. Here's what his listeners want. Here's the end result we hope you can deliver. And like, for me, I'm a big research guy before I go on a show. Like, I've been listening to your show, even just today, because I'm like, I'm going to go on. I want to hear it, right?

Harry Duran [00:35:30]: Yeah.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:35:31]: When it's on Pod Match, I can look through that. Not that I won't listen, but I can show up much more prepared because it helps me realign to who you are and what you're looking for. So those are a few ways. There's many other things. Those are a few ways that you can really do well on Pod Match. I always say, like, fill everything out, maximize your profile and use it. You're good to go.

Harry Duran [00:35:48]: Do you find or have you heard what's a good sweet spot for people? You know, how many hours a week would be helpful if this you're serious about, like, being, you know, getting visibility on other shows, like, a couple hours a week, just kind of spending time in there and just refining your profile and taking the time to find the shows that would be a good fit for you.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:36:08]: So, like, as the guest, right? Yeah, yeah, as the guest. I always tell people, like, once you set it, you're fine. Usually, like, you don't need to go through unless you do have multiple interests or expertise. And you're like, this month you want to cover on this one. And I always tell people, like, hey, this month you're doing this. Like, make your profile of that and then save yourself a copy and then change it next month when your book comes out. And you want to be something different, right? Like, if that's kind of your narrative. But most people, they're able to, like, do a good job in it like, encompassing all of it and making it more or less. It's a digital media one sheet where you can update your pictures whenever you want and stuff, and those different pieces of information. But I always just say when you're setting up, like, max it out.

Harry Duran [00:36:45]: Yeah.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:36:45]: Like, if you're. We have, like, a thing, like, questions are always ready to answer, and we allow either five or 10 of them. I can't recall off top of my head right now, but I always tell people, fill out every single one and make it a deep question. Right. Like, not just a ask me how I got into this. Right. Like, no, go really deep on something that would actually interest you because people will see that and the AI is reading that and then articulate specifically for that podcast. I always tell people, like, it's all in the profile setup, but you don't need to go through and change it much. Like, once you make it, that's your experience granted. You get a new job, something changes. Like, of course, update it.

Harry Duran [00:37:14]: Yeah, yeah. Makes sense. Shifting gears back to live events. One thing I notice about you in the last couple of conferences we've been at is you're always moving around, you're always on the go, and you've got, like, where. I'm like, where are you going? I got a meeting with this guy, and I'm like, I'm in this session and I'm running this workshop, and I'm just doing this. Talk a little bit about, like, the thought behind that, maybe the reason behind that. You know, it's really, like, networking, maybe 101 or something. But, like, it seems like you have an approach for these events to maximize, you know, the best use of your time there. So. And I wonder if that's changed over the years. But talk a little about your thought process there.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:37:48]: Yeah, I've had to strike a lot of balances there, a lot of them. And I'm very thankful for Alicia. She trapped my wife and business partner. She travels with me to Aldi's now, and she's the one who's making sure. She's like, here's a water bottle. Drink this before you talk to another person. And she's like, your throat sounds scratchy. But, you know, have this, like, take this little. Whatever that is. Right. Mint or whatever I need help with. So she's helped me a ton. But for me, at one point, we. We tried the booth thing. Like, we bought, like, a space and did that.

Harry Duran [00:38:14]: Yeah.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:38:14]: And it's just I felt like I was wearing a leash and I couldn't Walk too far. Right? Like, and this. I'm not saying anything against those. I think they work really well. It's just not my personality. I am as far extroverted as you can be. My favorite room to be in is a room where I've never met anybody in it. And I'm very happy to, like, walk around and just meet everybody. So for me, what it's become, though, is Pod Match has grown, is it's the opportunity to meet people that I've only met online. And so for me, I do my best to just set up as many, like, quick meetings as I can and, like, quick 20, 30 minutes. It's great to just sit with someone, be like, hey, it's so great to meet you. Tell me about what you got going on. Like, what could. Is there anything I do to help? Right? Like, let's just chat. And so often it's. We talk about something that everyone loves. It's not even podcasting related. We talk about podcasting all the time. So it's just getting to know people. And so. And then I always like to. If someone will have me at a conference, I love to be able to speak and share. I think that teaching and speaking is something that I've learned over the years, and I want to make sure I show up to really, again, help that community and help that conference really be elevated. So I show up and give 110%. I'm not one to have, like, any pitch or anything I'm trying to sell. I typically don't even, like. Last time I spoke was at Podcast Movement. I didn't even mention what I do, which is fine. It's not why I'm there. They trust me. The stage to teach people and we talked about monetization was we were covering for independent podcasters, so it was just like, you know, I'm just gonna dive into this and really share it. And so I'm always honing in that strategy. It does feel very random, even to me at times. I'm just kind of bouncing around looking for more people that I recognize or I recognize their name. Right. I'm always looking at lanyards and stuff. But I love it. I'll say that, like, that's one of my favorite things I get to do is go to these events where I just get to meet literally hundreds of people and take tons of pictures. It's a good time.

Harry Duran [00:39:46]: Do you find yourself drained when you get back home?

Alex Sanfilippo [00:39:49]: No, because I'm such an extrovert. Not really. My voice hurts, so I might be quieter when I get home, but it's not for long. It's just to get it back to where it should be. But, yeah, I'm typically not joining. Now, Alicia, who's also an extrovert, she's just not as extreme as I am. She's like, let's just be quiet, you know, like, let's get a little break here. But yeah, for me, I'm like, last one to leave the party, first one to show up type of thing. So. And yeah, when I get home, it's energizing. And then I get back to, like, email and chatting with people, online stuff. I'm like, oh, I met this person, right? And so for me, it's all super fun. Like, I really enjoy it. I don't find that draining at all.

Harry Duran [00:40:21]: Yeah, I think it's interesting for me, over the years, I found that I think I thought I was more extroverted than I was. And obviously we've. You've seen me at a podcast conference. I mean, I've been on karaoke stages as well and hanging out late night with some of the crew. And those nights catch up to you for sure. But I think I'm more, as I'm discovering as I get older, like, I'm situationally extroverted. So, like, I'll turn it on for, like, three days at the conference. But, you know, it's almost like they say in Vegas, like, three days is enough. Like, you go and then you're like, okay, I'm good, and I need to come back. And I realized, like, especially here and, like, working from home, just need to, like, get back and recharge a little bit. And I do get maintained connections, you know, virtually in between times. But I think everyone's got their own different personality style, and it's good that you found one that fits with your extrovertedness, especially, you know, at a podcast conference, there's no shortage of conversations to.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:41:09]: Be had for sure. Yeah.

Harry Duran [00:41:10]: Yeah. So as we wrap up, we've got the two usual question. What's something you've changed your mind about recently?

Alex Sanfilippo [00:41:17]: Well, what I already shared of having all the things and now having just the one thing. Well, I won't share that one as my thing, though. Something that I've really changed my mind on is really this idea that we need to continue to be, like, more things to more people. Like, I'm kind of sharing something similar, but, like, in general, just internally, like, hey, Alex, can you help me grow my podcast? Maybe, but probably not. And so, like, I've just changed My mind on this thing that, like, I always need to say yes. And just because I might be able to help doesn't mean I should. And that's not me trying to be rude or mean. I just realized it's not the best use of my time and I'm not the best person to help somebody with that. Like, I'm just not. And so somebody recently, like, what they wanted me on their podcast. They wanted to talk about, like, growing a software company. And, like, and they had, like, very specific things they want to cover. And I just told them, like, hey, I might be able to do that, but it's gonna be a stretch. And so I don't think I'm the best fit. And so it was like, one of those things are like, oh, okay. Like, no one ever says that, apparently, but it's one of those things. It's just like, I don't think I can. And so, like, again, I'm not talking about just from the brand side of things, having multiple companies, but for me, I've just realized it's better for me just to really know that one thing that I can help people with and just only help there, so I can really maximize the impact. And just the other thing that matters, though, is to know, like, don't give people dead ends. Just be like, nope, sorry. And someone's like, hey, how do I do this production thing? Like, how do I get my podcast to sound better? I'm like, hey, my friend Harry can help with that. Here's the thing. I could probably tell him to buy different mics and all that, but it's like, it's just not me. Talk to this guy. He's going to help you, because that's what he does. And so that's something that, like, I changed my mind on. Cause at first I was like, I want to answer everyone's questions, but I know I don't because it actually doesn't really help them that much.

Harry Duran [00:42:47]: Yeah, that's helpful. Thanks for sharing that. I can't help but mention I'm thinking now of our friend Chris Komitz and how much he's a fan of your meme game.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:42:55]: Yes.

Harry Duran [00:42:56]: Where did that start? If anyone watches. And we'll, you know, obviously follow podmatch or Alex on socials, and it seems to be a passion or a fun sport for you. But, like, how did that start?

Alex Sanfilippo [00:43:06]: Definitely a creative outlet. I've always been like, the guy who's like, you know, that should be a meme. And one day I just was like, how do you Make a meme. And it turns out it was extremely easy. There's like tons of websites to do it. It's like takes two seconds. And for me, some of you just see the vision of it. So I make them. And yeah, you're right. Chris is always like, man, you're so good at that. And I don't spend any time thinking about it. It just hits me and I'm just like, ooh, that would be hilarious. I do it. Sometimes it lands and usually it doesn't. But for me, it's a great creative outlet that doesn't take me really any time to do once a quarter. I do it for like the next 13 weeks of my podcast because it comes out with an episode usually. But thanks for highlighting that. That's just a nice little creative thing that I really don't get to do ever.

Harry Duran [00:43:42]: I started something years ago and it's on my podcast junkie's Instagram. I call it Hashtag Podcast lyrics. So if you put that hashtag into Instagram, what I would do is I would take album covers and I can't think of one that comes to mind right now, but I take six or seven different album covers and I would be able to adjust the COVID art so it. It kept the same font stuff. But then I'd rearrange it to be podcast related and then I would write a song like the song and I'd redo the words to be applying. So if you look in the actual note, it's. I don't know if you pulled up one recently or what.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:44:15]: Dude, I just pulled one up. I'm looking at Europe, the final podcast. So I'm not gonna read your lyrics here. But everyone go look that up. You can find it. That's great, man. I didn't know about that.

Harry Duran [00:44:25]: So I just kind of fell off. But I think I'm gonna start those again. Cause again, like speaking to that creative out that you know, the song is the final countdown. So I. I remember I would go look up the lyrics of the final countdown. And this is pre AI, so this is going to be so much easier now. So I'm like write me new lyrics for this song about podcasting. And it's just nice because. And this is. It's so much easier to do this with Canva now and like changing the graphic and stuff like this. I think I was using something else at the time. But like you said, it's a nice creative outlet and just like, just always work. It works with different part of your mind. I think you Know. Cause I'm always in the, like the logical, like get down the business and stuff. And I think thankfully I have my DJ equipment set up in this office and so over to my left here. And so I've got my turntables and stuff. And you know, I need to do it more often because I'm staring at them. But I'm just like, I need a music break or a dance break or something like that. Something that shifts my mind like outside of like the business. So it's fun that you do that. So def. I've been keeping an eye on those, so just keep them coming.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:45:21]: Thanks, man. I appreciate that.

Harry Duran [00:45:22]: This may change or maybe the same as last time, but what is the most misunderstood thing about you?

Alex Sanfilippo [00:45:27]: It's that I'm a software founder that cares. I don't recall what I said last time. It was probably something along those lines. Like most people, before they meet me, even if they've only met me online, they assume I'm really fake and like, just all face value, the reality is like, this really is me. And some people just cannot believe that. And I even have one person who's a close friend. I'll call him out here. Larry Roberts. You've heard the guy, right? Red Hat Larry, he's kind of icon in podcasting. He, from stage one time was like, man, Alex, he used some choice words. He's like, I thought you were the fakest person I ever met. Like, I knew you weren't serious. You were just gonna try to rip me off. And he goes, turns out you're like the best guy I've ever met in my life. Like you said, just like on stage.

Harry Duran [00:46:03]: I was like, that's awesome.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:46:04]: Thank you. I was like, but the reality is, I think I'm really misunderstood because it is very counterculture in the software space to really care about people. So people just assume that maybe I'm trying to. With like a fully monetized product, no free trial, right? Subscription based. People assume I'm just trying to earn that business so I can be like, check, got another one. Right? And the reality is, like, I'm not that person. But I see that again, the industry I'm in. Like, I can see why someone would think that. But if there's one thing I wish I could change, it'd be that because, like, it. It's tough for me to like, see that online. Like, the only thing that bothers me, I can see people talking trash, like, just being like, yeah, he's fake. He's not really like that. I Met him, right? And people, like, straight up lying. Like, I'm like, man, that freaking hurts. You know, like, that's like, me at the core. But, like, I have coaches, my life, how they feel, how they talk is not my responsibility. I can only control my response, not their actions. Right. So I just. I kind of back up from it. But I do wish that that were different, that more people knew that I was sincere. And I always work to articulate that the best I can, but here I.

Harry Duran [00:47:00]: Am, and I'll vouch for you any day of the year. So, my friends, thanks, man. You know, built a relationship over the years and grateful that we've been able to do it in person as well. And I think that's what I love about these conversations, being able to kind of humanize you and allow you to show that side. Because I think it's important if people just see you from the outside or see you as the founder of this company. And I think, to your point, to Larry's point, listen to Larry and Harry. But Alex is the real deal. So thanks again for making time to come on. I know you're super busy. You got a lot going on. And like I said, I always treasure these conversations because I can go deep and, you know, show what's happening in your world, but also kind of give you some, humanize, you know, you as well, because I think that's important so people can get a better understanding of what drives you, you know, and what keeps you going. And I think that's really important. So podmatch.com anywhere else you want to.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:47:49]: Send folks, that's it, man. Actually, I've been sending people the podmatch.com free, okay. Which is everything I do that's free. So that way you can just kind of see how it lets you into my world. To give you five quick wins. If you're a podcaster, don't want your email address or anything. It's just a, again, a way to kind of serve and add value. But, Harry, thank you again for what you do, man. Like, you've paved the way in podcasting for people like me. So I really, really means a lot, and I don't take that lightly at all.

Harry Duran [00:48:09]: Yeah, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants myself, so I appreciate those kind words. Thanks again for your time.

Alex Sanfilippo [00:48:13]: Thanks, man.