Vanessa Lowe Interview Transcription
The Importance Of Having Walked In Their Shoes | Amy Robles | PJ059

Transcript:

Harry Duran:
Podcast Junkies, we are back! Episode 49. What is Podcast Junkies you ask? I call it the Podcaster's Voice. What do I do that? Because I get to talk to amazing podcasters and they come in and I want them to feel like they're just chilling at home. I think it was Jessica Rhodes that gave me the best description, “It's like a late night conversation with your best friend.” Which was awesome. Which is what I want all these to feel like and this week we speak to Rob Walch, VP at Libsyn, host of Podcast 411 and Today in iOS as old school as they get. Podcasting since 2004.

I've been meaning to have Rob on and I was looking back on a list I had of 50 folks I wanted to speak to when I started podcasting and Rob was on that list and I just for some reason I just never got around to reaching out to him or I just didn't know how to, not know how to contact him, but just know how to promote my show and say, hey, will you come on.

So, I thankfully had the benefit and the pleasure of meeting him in person a couple of times and I think that sort of broke the ice. I've been a customer of Libsyn's for a while now since I got started and with some other shows that I'm producing. So, I've had multiple interactions with Rob and I think there's this notion sometimes that I've heard people say Rob can be a bit grouchy, I don't know why, maybe it's just people that don't know him.

It couldn't be farther from the truth. He's a lot of fun, has really, really quick humor, sense of humor, and we laughed a lot and just got to know him a little bit more and I think you will too and find out some things about him that you might not know. He's as passionate about podcasting as they come and as knowledgeable about podcasting as they come as well. So, the combination of those makes for superbly entertaining show. I think you'll agree. My interview with Rob Walch.

So, Rob Walch, thank you so much Friday for joining me on Podcast Junkies.

Rob Walch:
Harry, thanks for having me on.

Harry:
Any plans this weekend?

Rob:
I'm going to go see Minions.

Harry:
That's so funny. My last guest, I just had Vanessa Lowe from Nocturne on and she said the exact same thing.

Rob:
Yeah, absolutely. It's like, yeah, how can you not go see that soon. The kids, you know, and actually I was dressed up last year for Halloween, I was dressed up as Gru and my son was a Minion. So, yeah, my youngest son was a Minion and I was Gru, which works well when you're bald, so you can pull Gru off pretty well.

Harry:
Are you, a lot of these movies I've seen lately, they tend to have the obvious, like, the angle for the kids and animation, but every once in a while they throw jokes in there that are kind of for adults and you're like oh, okay.

Rob:
Oh yeah, what was the movie I was watching the other day, it was a kid's movie and they threw an auto erotica asphyxiation joke in there and it was something else and anyways, he was meant to be mispronouncing something and I was like, oh wow, they did not just say that. That's too funny.

Harry:
There was something I saw and there was like, there's no bears in San Francisco. They were just talking about – I saw some big harry guys, are those bears? It's like, what?

Rob:
Oh yeah, but you know, Disney animators have always done things like that. Cartoons have always been done by adults with insider jokes for adults. Even Eek! The Cat had a lot of, you know, adult humor hidden in its hay day and Disney, there was a scene, if you've got the DVD/Blu Ray, Who Framed Roger Rabbit where her dress flips up and they show, you know, a snatch shot and there was what, Michael Eisner's home phone number written in one on the wall.

Harry:
Really?

Rob:
Yeah. The Disney animators, you know, they're bored, so they have fun.

Harry:
Yeah, at the end of the day you have to keep in mind these are grown adults drawing kids cartoons, so I'm sure when all said and done, they still got their adult sensibilities. So, I guess I just wanted to chat about all the stuff that's going on. It's definitely an exciting time to be podcasting. I'll make sure not to refer to it as a renaissance.

Rob:
Yes. Well, again, it's a renaissance of media coverage or resurgence of media coverage, as I've always said. It's not a resurgence in podcasting. It's been steady growth and it's taken a lot of work for the community, the industry, to get where we are and it's not a fad and it's not a one hit wonder. Serial didn't make podcasting. Podcasting would be where it is today without Serial. There's no one podcast that has made this industry.

Harry:
It's an interesting day today, because as we're chatting about briefly, I spoke to Brendan McDonald who is the producer for WTF and they just obviously had an historic moment with Barrack Obama and Libsyn played a key role in that in terms of making sure nothing broke.

Rob:
Yeah, well Marcs been hosting with us since day one. So, when he started the podcast, he started with us and he started right and its continued on and nothing goes wrong, so knock on wood.

Harry:
Was there prep involved in that and did they reach out to you and say, hey, this is coming down the pike?

Rob:
Yeah, Brendan actually contacted me a few days before it happened and said, hey, wanted to let you know, this week we're going to be doing an interview with the President, next week it'll go up, do you guys need to do anything to prep for it? I said, nope, we're fine.

Harry:
Matter factly like that.

Rob:
Yeah. Yeah, nope, we're find. Matter of fact, I didn't even contact the support guys about this. I said, oh, the next day I was talking to one of them and I said, oh, by the way, you can't tell anybody, but this is going to happen. I go, we don't need to do anything? He's like, no, we're fine.

Harry:
So, you were on the feed, you were chatting about it with Elsie. I think what surprised you was the fact that there was no vetting of the episode once it was done, right?

Rob:
That was really what surprised me, because I cheated and I listened to it early and it was on Father's day I was listening to it and then the next day I went back and looked at the preliminary episode and I said, how many people listened to it? You know, he gave access to this, because I kind of snuck in, and there was two downloads. That's it? It's me and one download from California and one download from Kansas, which was me, and so it was like no downloads from Washington, DC. That was so, how many downloads were me and probably either Brendan or Marc and so that told me that, you know, the White House clearly didn't vet it. They just went, yeah, go for it, and that was surprising and refreshing and I was like kudos to them for just letting it go.

Harry:
On top of that, even taking a step back, what are your thoughts about them having the actual interview on Marc's home turf, as it was?

Rob:
Well, I think that's what made it even more special, because it's like saying hey, the President is willing to come and do an interview on a podcast, how that podcast normally works. Didn't ask for special favors or anything. I mean, other than putting snipers on your neighbor's roof, but you know, as far as the podcast recording went, in the same garage as all the other guests had been and I know Marc has done a couple in hotel rooms and things, but for the most part, they're always in there right in that garage and that was nice.

It was nice for podcasting and I saw, well, how that affects podcasting, in my mind, long term, there's a lot of PR companies out there that have to try and book their clients on different things when they're promoting DVDs or movies or books or whatever it is and some of those clients may have and are still probably are a little hesitant to come on podcasting. Now, these PR guys can point to the fact, hey, look, the President went on a podcast, you can go on a podcast.

Harry:
Not only did the President go on a podcast, the President went to Marc Maron's garage to be on a podcast.

Rob:
Right and I think that story from different, you know, PR places is going to work well. So, if you are a podcaster and you want to get a celebrity on your show, I think it's going to make it easier now, you know, as I always say to people, go out to IMDB Pro, sign up, find every celebrity you want to ever interview, figure out when they're releasing a book, a movie, a TV, or whatever it is, they're in promotion mode at that point, reach out to their contacts and now you might have a better chance.

Harry:
That's a fantastic service to refer people to. Is that one of the first places you send people to when you have them look for places to book guests?

Rob:
Oh yeah. If you want celebrities, absolutely. I tell them, look, I don't know what it is now, $15 a month or $12 a month, I'm not even sure what it is any more, but I say, sign up for one month, figure out ahead of time, go on IMDB, if you ever want any celebrities you want, figure out ahead of time, and then sign up, and then get all their contacts and then cancel. Don't be like me, I let it run for like two years before I canceled it.

Harry:
Did you get any use out of it?

Rob:
Yeah. I absolutely did. That's how I got Ronald Moore on my podcast back in the day from Battlestar Galactica and that lead me into interviewing Colin Ferguson, so I got a few different celebrities out of that. I think Larry Kudlow, I reached out to his people through that as well.

Harry:
So, it came in handy.

Rob:
Yeah, it's definitely a nice thing. I would say exaggerate your numbers, overstate your placement, whatever it is you gotta do to get that first big celebrity, because once you get the first one, then the rest are easy to follow.

Harry:
Well, there's two things, right, there's one where you're trying to get a celebrity, they're always worried about what's this thing that I'm coming on board and like you said, now this activity with the President Obama is just going to open the gates for all that sort of stuff and then there's the other approach when you're trying to go after a sponsor or advertiser and you can take a couple of different attacks there, show numbers or not show numbers.

Rob:
Well, then you have to be honest about your numbers. When it's an advertiser, you have to be honest about numbers. When it comes to booking somebody who's going to be hawking a DVD, a movie, a book, don't worry about honesty. Little white lies never hurt.

Harry:
Well, it's mutually beneficial, right?

Rob:
Right. You're doing them a favor, you're helping promote them and sometimes, you know, in the past, the gatekeepers too, a lot of the times were some of these PR companies early on, but I think now, it really, I think with the President coming on, it just sends this nice message that podcasting is here, if the President can do it, you can do it.

Harry:
What's funny is its, not only does it validate it for people who are trying to do something similar albeit on a smaller scale, but even for Marc himself, I think anyone who, in the past, like he's tried to reach out to have on his show, at this point now, you can't, you know, well I had the President on, like, how much more important can anyone else be besides that?

Rob:
Yeah. Robbin Williams really helped him early on too. I mean, having Robin Williams helps you, but I mean, Marc had a reputation, so I think anybody who is doing interviews in any niche, if you can get the one or the biggest in the niche, then you're set.

Harry:
Have you seen, what have you seen from Libsyn's prescriptive as a result of the interview with the President?

Rob:
Well, from Libsyn's prescriptive, you know, we saw some nice mentions in podcasting. I got a couple of interviews. People asked to talk about the hosting, because they saw where Marc was hosting, but overall, I think the biggest thing is when I look at Marc's stats, just seeing the fact that his episodes after the interview are up. So, it wasn't just that interview. It wasn't a spike. There was a spike there, but it didn't come back down to where it was before. It's now raised. He's got a bigger audience base, so it helped him grow his audience base, which is great.

On top of that, a lot of these people that came in listened now have been exposed to the podcasting. You know, some of those people that listen to Marc's show, maybe Marc's show isn't going to be their cup of tea, but maybe another podcast is, maybe if you're a podcast listening, maybe your podcast will be somebody who first listened to the podcast because of the interview with Obama and learned about podcasting that way.

Harry:
Have you seen it, you know, sometimes we only have our own small circle of friends or family to use as our on going test bed of how far progress we've made in terms of podcasting, what have you've seen with your friends or still trying to explain podcasting to your grandma, how that's going?

Rob:
You know, people say, I haven't, I can't remember the last time I talked to someone that when they asked what I did and I told them, they didn't – actually, I've gone to now, not even asking if they know what a podcast is. I actually say now when someone asks me what you do, I go, what podcast do you listen to? And usually they'll rattle off a few and I'll say well, two or three of those host for the company I work with.

Harry:
Ah.

Rob:
Every now and again I'll get someone that says, well, I don't listen to any. I go, but you know what they are and I can't remember the last time someone said to me, I don't know what a podcast is, no, explain it to me.

Harry:
Yeah, I've been taking advantage of the ride sharing, so I'm in Lyfts and I'm in Ubers and one of the first things I do is I just like, so, by the way, do you know what a podcast is? Half of them are still yes and then inevitably I'm able, by the time I get to the airport, to either give them my card, which is another good reason to have your podcast info handy or just actually go on their phone and put on it for them.

Rob:
Yeah. I'm amazed by how many podcasters still don't have a business card for their show. I talk to them all the time. I go, what's your business card? Oh, I don't have one, but Overnight Prints. Go spend $50 bucks and get yourself some cards. Get some cards, because one of the best to do is when you meet people, tell them about your show, hand them a card, here you go. What I’ll do sometimes with people is I'll take their phone, their smartphone. I'll say, give me your smartphone and I'll go and I'll download the app for my show on their smartphone.

Harry:
That's an important distinction, because some people might have thought, oh, go to the podcast and I'll download the podcast for them. Explain the importance of having an app specifically for your podcast.

Rob:
People love apps. I mean, it's appification of the world. A lot of people don't get this outside of podcasting. I mean, I hear this from some podcasters. They'll say, well, I listen to 15-20 podcasts, people don't want an app for each show. Reality is, what is it, 76% of podcast listeners, according to Edison listen to five or fewer podcasts and the average smartphone user has a 120 apps installed that they installed on their device. Well, think about that. If most people are listening to five or fewer podcasts and most people have 120 or more apps they've installed, installing one more app for your show is not a big deal and it gives you better branding with your audience. Having your own app, it's just a better all around experience between you and your listen when you have an app, if you have a good app. So, when I introduce my shows now to people, I go and I have them download my app.

Harry:
It's more of a, Libsyn is continuing to add functionality to the feature, right. I think – is push functionality supported on it at this point?

Rob:
It is. You have to ask for it, but yes, because I have push on mine, which is a great liberator, because when you have push notification and most of your listeners have your app, you don't worry that I'm going to release on Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday, you release when the episode is ready and I'm a firm believer of release when your episode is right, don't release right now.

You know, people have this belief system that you have to release the same day, same time, every week, and I kind of used to think that way and then I started looking at the biggest shows out there and I noticed something, they don't do it that way. Dan Carlin – Hardcore History, nobody is bigger than his, his release schedule is 8 to 18 weeks between episodes. Joe Rogan will release anywhere from one to four or five episodes in a week, what days of the week? Who knows, but they'll go up.

So, what I've discovered is, hey, as long as I can have a way to let my audience know that the episode went up, I don't feel bad and my audience knows that my episodes are going to be released between five and ten days between episodes, typically, and usually if I get to that 10th day and I haven't released an episode, I start getting emails, hey, where's the episode?

Harry:
That's a sign of loyal followers, right? When they reach out to you and say, hey, it's, they sort of keep you on your tops and like, when's the latest episode. It's a nice feeling to know you have like a little tribe keeping you honest and the other thing is, if your content is good enough, then people look for it and it almost speaks to making sure just, maybe not be consistent with releasing, but be consistent with quality and keep putting out things that people are going to have a natural inclination for and then over time saying, okay, I don't know when it's coming out, but I know that when it is there, I'm going to go after it and I see that with Joe Rogan and I see that with Dan Carlin.

Rob:
Yeah, the other thing to think too is if you release a bad episode because you're trying to stick to a timeline, you know, you just throw an episode out there, okay, I gotta release, it's Monday, it's 10am, that's it, publish. Well, oh well, not my best, a certain percentage of your audience is going to go, man, this show is not so good or they're new listeners saying, oh wow, never listening to this again, and you get them back if you lose the audience.

So, I'm a firm believer of release it when it's right, get it right and even if it's late, it's better to have that email, ‘when's the next episode coming' than the email that says, wow, what did you do on that last episode? Where were you?

Harry:
Competition is fierce nowadays and quality wise, it just seems like everyone is stepping it up across the board and a lot of it is the NPR effect, but I just notice more and more if it's something that sounds like it was made with ear buds and the laptop mic, like you said, you just don't feel like listening to it for that long.

Rob:
Yeah. I don't want anybody to get me wrong. I'm not saying don't do a release schedule if you can. If you can do it and have it done and you're not racing to get the episodes done and you're not forcing out episodes, release on a regular schedule. I mean, I know some people that get five or six episodes ahead and you can just go in, if you're on Libsyn, schedule it to release on Monday at 10am and it might be two weeks from now could be the Monday that you're picking and that's great if you're that kind of person. I'm not. That's not me.

Harry:
You'll be happy to know that you also got a shout out from Duncan Trussell. I listened to his podcast as well and he just had Marc Maron on and they were talking, obviously, about the interview and at some point, it's so funny, because you're not expecting to hear, he's like, thanks Marc for introducing me to that hosting company, because I didn't know anything about that and I think he actually said Libsyn.

Rob:
Yeah, Duncan hosts with us.

Harry:
So, that's funny, but that just goes to show you. Nothing beats or nothing is better than a referral that one of your customer's gives to someone else.

Rob:
Oh yeah and Marc Maron is with us because of Keith and the Girl.

Harry:
Yeah.

Rob:
Keith and the Girl recommend to Marc Maron's people that when Marc was looking to podcast to come over to Libsyn. Kieth and Chemda helped out, so we wouldn't have the President's interview without Keith and Chemda, so shoutout to Kieth and Chemda.

Harry:
You can point it all to one piece. If that hadn't happened that hadn't happened, so it was fun when you traced those back. How long have you been with Libsyn?

Rob:
I have been with Libsyn, it'll be 8 years in August. So, I was podcasting about 2 and a half years before I started with Libsyn, so yeah, it was August 6th, 2007 is when I started.

Harry:
And were you hosting with Libsyn prior to..

Rob:
Oh yeah. Yeah. I was hosting with Libsyn almost for over two years prior to getting the job with them. I started hosting with them in March of 2005. My podcast itself started in late 2004 and I got senator Edwards as a guest on my podcast. He agree to come on my podcast in April of 2005 and I was like, I need to find a better host. I think I'm going to take down my website.

So, because that was right after the 2004 elections and he was at that time probably one of the front runners for the next running and I was like, okay, I knew from doing a podcast about podcasting, hey, Libsyn is there and I signed up with Libsyn and I've been a very happy Libsyn customer ever since and I was such a happy customer promoting them all the time, they came to me and said, why don't you work for us and I was like, okay. That makes sense.

Harry:
So, this is an interesting piece of info, because you listen to a lot of information on podcasts and I heard, I think it was Elsie, Elsie's official title of Libsyn is…

Rob:
Podcast Happiness Guru.

Harry:
Podcast Happiness. I like that and she also has She Podcasts, so I heard her on She Podcasts, so she was telling me that there was another senator who you had the opportunity to interview at that time as well.

Rob:
Actually, I had the chance to work for – do his podcast. His people contacted me, because I was doing senator Edwards at the time, so his people contacted me and said, hey, we're going to launch this podcast, cna you take a listen to it, tell us what you think, and you know, can you help us out and I went, listen, okay, sounds good, but you know, it would kind of be a conflict of interest, you know, he's some people in Chicago that might can help you out and, of course, that was senator Obama at the time, who then became President Obama, so yeah, I had a chance early on to work on his podcast and opps.

Harry:
Yeah.

Rob:
And the worst part about it was later on when I told senator Edwards people about it, they're like, oh, no, you could have worked on it.

Harry:
Oh man.

Rob:
I was like, okay, and then I worked on governor Richardson's podcast. I was like, okay, no conflict.

Harry:
It's going to be an interesting time, because politicians have an acute awareness if they didn't – I mean, they were obviously doing it before way back in 2005, but I think this is just going to have that sky rocket, right?

Rob:
I'd imagine there'd be more politicians getting into podcasting. You're still surprised how few of the major candidates are doing or doing it well. I would love to see Hillary do it right this time. She did horribly wrong last time.

Harry:
What were the mistakes she was making in your opinion?

Rob:
They would just take stump speeches and literally senate floor speeches and re-purpose them and call it a podcast. It was, you know, with the warning label, do not operate heavy machinery while listening to this podcast. It was bad. It was probably one of the worst politician ones. Senator Edwards did it right, senator Obama at the time, now President Obama, but he did it right. He made it personable and as a politician, the whole goal of the podcast isn't to promote your agenda, isn't to promote your talking points, it's to promote you as a likeable person. If you can get the person to like you in the podcast, you'll have plenty of other opportunities to spew your political beliefs. So, you keep it light on the politics and heavy on the personality.

Harry:
I think that's why the interview with Marc was so successful, because the feedback that he heard, it was, hey, I'm not a fan, but I really enjoyed the conversation.

Rob:
Yeah, I heard from people on both sides of the aisle that thought it was a very good interview and in this device of political world, that says a lot.

Harry:
Yeah, definitely.

Rob:
I mean, there are some people that, obviously there are some people that are so far on either spectrum, they'll never like an interview they hear of President Obama, just like there's some people who never like an interview that they hear of Jeb Bush. So, you're going to have people that are just going to be polarized and throw those people away, but the majority of the people, at least that I've heard from, really like the interview.

Harry:
So, prior to you joining Libsyn, did you know anything else about the company besides the fact that you were just hosting with them?

Rob:
Well, I knew the guys, the Daves, that started it and I had interviewed them and I had them on Podcast411, you know, at the time podcasting, that was my gig and my podcast was about podcasting, so I knew all about Libsyn and the other podcast hosts that were out there, so I had a pretty good feel of who they were, what they were doing, and they had just got acquired by Wizard Media and talk with them and I was actually working a day job, at the time I started a day job for a PR company and I was trying to get them on as a client to be their PR company during that period of time and that lead me to get to know, Chris Spencer, who was the CEO at the time, so that just became a better – you know, we're on the phone call from me trying to recruit them became a phone call from them recruiting me.

Harry:
What was their history? How was the company founded?

Rob:
It was founded by the four guys, basically, in one of their living rooms. Here were all Pitt guys and the longer back history was that Dave Mansueto was doing some art-type recording stuff and he had talked with Dave Chekam and Hoopes and Marty, just about getting website up and they had done some website stuff before that and then Dave had learned about this thing called podcasting in September/October time frame in 2004 and he said, you know, he wanted to do one and looked around and realized there wasn't really a place to do it, so they said, hey, let's do it, you know, let's make a service specifically for podcasting.

Let's do it right. Let's not have a single server with a point of failure, let's make it many servers and spread it out and create a back-end that could handle any amount of traffic and that basic architecture is what's driven Libsyn all these years and it's much more robust today than it was 10 years ago. Dual CDN, again, Marc had the President on, it's not even a blimp and, you know, I said to Brendan, don't worry about it. Your file sizes are small, you've got Dan Carlin, whose file sizes are huge and he gets, you know, 350,000 downloads in the first day, so you know, when Marc doubled that when he got 735,000, bandwidth wise, it was actually less than what Dan does with a new episode of Hardcore History.

Harry:
Yeah, I think with the combination of those two now, you've basically kick the tires. You can validate to anyone, if anyone had any doubts before.

Rob:
Right now, typically Libsyn, if you go into iTunes, we have about 35% of the top 200 shows in iTunes. Again, one show is never going to affect us.

Harry:
Like you've mentioned, you had your original podcast is Podcast411?

Rob:
Umhmm.

Harry:
You are also the host of This Week in iOS.

Rob:
Today in iOS.

Harry:
Today in iOS, sorry.

Rob:
It used to be Today in iPhone and that one, that one, I mean, that one is the reason I don't do Podcast411 all the time or hardly ever or kind of have it on hiatus, because it just takes so much time. It takes 20 hours a week for me to do that show and that one is fun and it pays bills and so…

Harry:
How long is Today in iOS? How long has that been running?

Rob:
Before the iPhone launched. I actually launched it in April of 2007. I even launched it with an advertiser before the first episode.

Harry:
How did you pull that off?

Rob:
Audible wanted to advertise on Podcast411 and I said, no, I don't take advertising, but I'm about to launch this other podcast, which you be interested in adverting and they're like, what's it about, and I was like, the iPhone, and they're like, okay and we worked out a deal where they bought the first three months of advertising at a nice rate that paid for the iPhone and the data plan for the first year. I figured how much it was going to cost me and they covered that for the first three months of advertising and they continued to advertise with it, so it was like, okay, not only am I doing the podcast about it, but now I'm definitely getting the iPhone, so when it came time to break the news to my wife that I had another podcast, which she didn't know for the first month and a half or so, that I can say, well, I'm making money.

Harry:
How do you hide the fact that you're doing a podcast? Because obviously at some point you had to go into this room here and record or disappear for like an hour and a half.

Rob:
Well, she thought I was just working on the other podcast.

Harry:
Okay, so that's not so bad.

Rob:
Yeah.

Harry:
So, interestingly enough. Today in iOS is one of the first podcasts I listened to that was not music related, because for me in the past, I grew up as a DJ, a podcast was a compilation of music and music recordings that DJs would make and then I was trying to launch an app that I created for electronic music and it was for DJs and I said, okay, where can I get more information and then I think I stumbled on one or two podcasts about making apps, so they were specifically on how to make iOS apps and then one of them I think mentioned your name or like I heard it on Today in iOS and I was like, oh, Today in iOS, what's this? And then obviously as you know it becomes a rabbit hole and I remember I was listening to your show for a while. I even downloaded the player, because you had its own app at the time.

Rob:
Right. I had it for six years I've had an app for the show now, yeah, so long time.

Harry:
I meant to – I remember, this is now two plus years back, but at one point I was going to promote my app and I was like, I gotta record one of those intros.

Rob:
You didn't do it?

Harry:
I never got around to it, but I was going to make, like, I think a 30 second promo or something like that.

Rob:
What I say to app developers, any app developers out there, if you have an app that's for sale, or if not, just record me a 60 second or less audio or video of your app stating upfront you're the dev and I'll play it on the show and if you have an app that's for sale, give me five promo codes and I'll put it in the beginning of the episode and I give away the promo codes, so five or more and I've been doing that for years now and I get developers all the time send me their apps and I've expand it recently to say, hey, English isn't your native language, because I've had a few complaining, oh, I'd love to do it, but I can't speak English, my English no good and I say, well, okay, write your review down and I'll read, so I'll do that for people where they're not native English speakers who are not comfortable with their voice.

Harry:
You also do the artwork or..?

Rob:
I do. So, every episode has a different artwork and also a different song and the artwork is created for the show by the listeners on an iOS device, so it has to be on an iOS device and they have to tell me what app they used to create it, so that way at the beginning of the episode, I say, hey, thank you for the artwork and here's the app they used to create it. So, if someone sees the app or artwork that they created, they go oh, I like that artwork, that's neat, what app did they use? Now they know.

So, it's a way for people to discover different artwork apps that are out there and photo editing apps and other apps, because a lot of people create, you know, that was the whole idea behind it was for me to say, look, people are creating on their iOS device. They're not just consuming, it's not just a consumption device, the iOS device is a creation device and that was kind of my way of driving that point home early on in the show.

Harry:
And music too, right?

Rob:
And music and then people send me in songs. I play songs that were created just on iOS devices.

Harry:
At this point you must have a whole collection. You could release an album.

Rob:
Oh, I got a ton of music. Yeah. A matter of fact, what I do is I make it bonus content, so in my app, you can go into the episodes, you can go to the bonus and just play the song. So, you can go through it with this one and go to the next song or go to the next episode and play the bonus track and so, yeah, the app makes it nice to show that bonus artwork, show that bonus audio files have them played right in there. So, that's another reason as a podcaster to get an app, it gives you a chance to give bonus content back to your listeners.

Harry:
So, was there ever a point in your technology history where you did not have an Apple device?

Rob:
Oh yeah, it was a miserable dark time. No, I was an Atari user before I was an Apple user.

Harry:
Atari?

Rob:
I had an Atari 800, I had a TRS-80 Color before that. I had a TRS-80 CoCo, I had an Atari 800. There was a point in time where I had a PC, a very short period of time.

Harry:
Was it Tandy 1000?

Rob:
No, it was, I can't even remember, it was a beige no-name box back in like 87-88 time frame, but then I got rid of it real quick. It was right after – it would have actually been 89, it was right after college.

Harry:
Might have been TigerDirect.

Rob:
I don't remember who it was from, but yeah, it was pretty bad. It was like even with the monotone – it was like a mono color green screen, it was bad.

Harry:
So, describe for me the moment when you unpacked your first Macbook or Mac or whatever it was?

Rob:
The first Apple product – okay, so the first Mac would have been, oh man, so the first Mac would have been 90-91, right in there, because it would have been right after I got rid of that, so I can't remember the exact time, but it was…

Harry:
Was it the iMac?

Rob:
No, no. It wasn't an iMac, it wasn't the Performa, Performa was the next one, so it was the one before that and I can't even remember the model number now, so it was a regular Mac. It was nice. I was like, I think I was running Mac maybe four, it was four?

Harry:
Okay, wow.

Rob:
Yeah, I'm trying to remember. It's really been a long time.

Harry:
So are you the type of person..

Rob:
You stretch your mind. See, the problem is I remember my very first computer, but see this is like, this is now you're, now I'm in a few computers.

Harry:
That's so funny, because at some – when you think about the ones that you just, at some point you got it, it was like the most powerful machine in the world. It was amazing and then like two years, that dies quickly, because you realize as with all technology, it gets old quick.

Rob:
Yeah, I was updating every couple of years and the Performa was the next one, because I remember that – because I did actually get one that was both a Mac and a PC, so they had one version in there that was both a Mac and a PC in it and it had two different cards. Had that for a little bit, but one of them got struck by lighting, the house got struck by lighting and it blew out the modern on the computer. I was on the phone and I wasn't on the computer, I wasn't using it. It was just plugged in into the wall, but I was on the phone talking when the house got hit by lighting. It blew out my phone and it blew out my computer.

Harry:
Wow.

Rob:
Yeah and it blew out my satellite dish too. So, yeah, it was a bad day. I remember that.

Harry:
So, are you the type of person that holds on to all your old technology for your technology museum in-house?

Rob:
As he reaches and pulls down…

Harry:
Wow. Is that – is that a 2c?

Rob:
That's an S3. That's a Mac S3. That's a Mac S3. So, yeah.

Harry:
I love how you just happen to have that handy.

Rob:
I don't know if that was – but, that was one I bought later on. I actually got that after. So, I've gotten Macs at auctions and things over the years, so that's the oldest I have. I still have an Atari 800 around here and an Atari 400 and an Atari 2600, so..

Harry:
Yeah, we had the Atari 2600 and someone, I think, ended up with it, but I think all we have now is the cartridges remaining. I don't kno wwhy, but we never got the colecoVision or the Nintendo. I think, Nintendo, yeah, we did get an Nintendo, but we had at one point the 2600, wish we held on to that.

Rob:
I still have it and it's in a box and I show the kids it, but we actually bought one of those cheap 2600..

Harry:
Joystick?

Rob:
No, it's like the joystick, but it's like a cheap 2600 ripoff that you plug right in to the AV cables in your computer or not your computer, your monitor – flat screen TV, because the biggest issue I have now with the flat screen TV, because the biggest issue I have now with the Atari, you have to get a tube TV to connect everything to and the 75 connector.

Harry:
Wow. That's right. You’re dating yourself with that one. At some point they'll bring it back in some form or another. I think all the Atari games are iPhone apps now.

Rob:
Yeah and they do have emulators out there, so that you can get that and I actually have a lot of the – I do have the app on my iPhone with the arcade games in it.

Harry:
Oh yeah.

Rob:
Yeah, so you can play centipede right there on your iPhone now.

Harry:
So, from hosting Today in iOS. What were some of the most memorable – did you have insights or because people knew you were doing it or maybe folks at Apple, did that get you into the conferences or anything like that?

Rob:
Apple is very funny about that. I mean, I have people that listen to the show that work at Apple, they'll contact me, but you don't get any special treatment, at least I don't, because maybe I talk about jail breaking too much and sometimes I'm a little too honest, so you know, I don't get any bonuses or benefits. I've talked with a couple of their PR folks from time to time and they're nice, but yeah, I'm not getting the…

Harry:
Apple love?

Rob:
Yeah, the Jim Dalrymple or Daring Fireball type love that those guys get. It's okay.

Harry:
So, you still enjoy doing the show?

Rob:
I really enjoy doing the show. I have fun with it. I've got a nice loyal audience base, very active, over half the content to every episode is listener generated, sometimes probably more than that now, so a lot of listener feedback, voice mails. I mean, I have a folder with over a thousand voicemail messages I still haven't played on the show.

Harry:
Wow.

Rob:
Yeah, I kind of feel bad about that. Some of them are a little dated. The last time I looked, okay, let's see how many we've got now here. Go in..

Harry:
Rob is checking now.

Rob:
Yeah, so let's see.

Harry:
I love how you have all, you have everything – like…

Rob:
1204.

Harry:
1204, wow. I love how you have everything at arm's length. So, the most exciting time or the busiest time when Apple releases a new handset?

Rob:
Oh, yeah. Without a doubt, yeah. For me, I get a spike in listenership come September/October. So, when Apple releases a new iPhone, that's when there's a lot more interest in the show, in the product, so my show, when you go into iTunes and search for iPhone or iPad or iOS, my show comes up first.

Harry:
Does that mean you have to get the new phone every time?

Rob:
You know, my sons think so, because they love it when daddy gets a new phone, because that means phones roll down to sons, so I was telling them that, no, I'm not getting a new phone this year, because daddy just got a new Macbook, Macbook pro, and mommy got a Macbook and daddy got an Apple Watch and it's been an expensive year in the household Apple wise.

I said, we'll probably not going to do a new iPhone, I got the 6+ ast year, so I go, most likely, not going to get a new one. It would have to be some really super fantastic feature that blows you out of the water this year. I just can't. My son is like, no, you can do it for your show, dad, and funny, last year I wasn't going to do it either, I was on the 5s and I was like, you know what, I'll wait till next year. I always like the S series ones, the S ones are the bigger updates, really, technically spec wise and my listeners were like, no, no, no, you need to get it and so they started donating money to me to go and get the phone last year.

Harry:
Wow. That’s funny. I'm always on the S cycle. I'm on the 5s, so I'm due. My next upgrade will be the 6s, which will be a good thing.

Rob:
So, you'll be happy. The rumor..we'll see if the rumors come true, but they bought a company in Israel earlier this year and that company supposedly has sensors for cameras that give you DSLR image quality.

Harry:
Wow.

Rob:
Yeah, so if you actually look at photography for the 4s, 5s, and the 6+, if you look at how the photographs look between there, there's a little bit of a difference between the 4s and the 5s, you can see it, the quality difference in the photos, easily. Between the 5s and the 6+, almost no difference in quality of the images. So, you're at the point where the normal person can't really tell the difference between it. Apple needs to take it to the next level.

Harry:
I saw a billboard here in Las Angeles and it was a sun set or something like that, but it said, made – this photo was taken with an iPhone 6+. I was like, wow. That's a pretty good testament to the quality of the images.

Rob:
Yeah, but I think the camera is the biggest thing they use on their smartphone and I think Apple knows that and they always have some update to the cameras and I felt like the last few updates you kind of almost plateaued, yeah, so we'll see what Apple does this year. I wanna imagine that there's going to be a lot of talk about the camera.

Harry:
So, you mentioned your son, Porter, right?

Rob:
Porter is my youngest son, yes. He has a podcast, yes.

Harry:
I know that because he has a podcast. How's the podcast doing?

Rob:
As he will tell you, he's upset, because his producer isn't working with him enough and his producer, IE me, needs to work with him to get the next episode out, so we talked about doing one this weekend. We'll see if we get one done this weekend. I have to prep his questions. We got a bunch of questions in there ready for him, so we'll see if we can get one out. Maybe we'll talk about Minions.

Harry:
Yeah, of course. That'll be fun. So, for folks listening, talk about why you decided to start a podcast or maybe he did and he asked you..

Rob:
He came to me. He did. No, he was five and a half at the time and he has an older brother and I had tried to get his older brother to do podcast. I said, hey, Henry, you want to do a podcast and he's like, no, no, I don't want to do it, I don't want to do it. So, one day Porter comes to me and goes, I want to do a podcast. Like, okay, well, I was thinking, right, whatever, I was like, well, here, tell me what you want to do it about and I thought that would be the question that would push him aside, you know, and he came back to me and he says, I want to answer people's questions.

Harry:
Nice.

Rob:
Okay, well, good, you've got a format, you know what you want to do, you can be a podcaster. So, we worked that out and got a few people to send in some questions for him and we've been doing that now. Again, he's overdue for a new episode, but he likes it, he has fun. He sits on my lap for about 20 minutes. We do the recording and then afterwards I edited it all up and get about a 12-15 minute show out of it.

Harry:
You'll be happy to know you had one more listener as a result of me going to see my parents for fathers day and my nephews were over and I'm like, guys, you know, because one of them does some YouTube stuff and I'm like, have you been listening to the podcast and they're like, no, I'm like, well, there's this guy named Porter, he's got his own podcast, you should check it out, so obviously my nephews got an iPhone already, so I grab his phone and I downloaded Porter's podcast and that's one more listener.

Rob:
Well, thank you and Porter has fun with it. We have a little thing where he just says thank you to the different countries – the different country each episode for listening. So, I'll teach him how to say thank you in a certain language. The last one was Korean. So, we have to figure out what the next language is going to be, but he says thank you.

Harry:
At this point you've had listenership in almost all countries, right?

Rob:
His show, last time I checked was about 115-120 countries he has downloads in, yeah. So, we'll see where we're going to go for the next one. That's one of the things, again, that's my prep work, I gotta find the country and then pick the language for him, but then he learns it and he learns to say thank you and so he has fun with that.

Harry:
He's going to be a multilingual podcaster. So, you recently had, you spoke at the NMX conference and you had a talk that was all that marketing advice for your podcast is BS.

Rob:
Yeah, I said, all that marketing advice for your podcast is BS. Well, it's true. Most all of it is. Some of the marketing advice out there is so, so bad.

Harry:
So, what are the top two or three things that just stick in your craw?

Rob:
Twitter bombing, you know, just over Twitting your thing. There's quite a few Twitter bombers I could look to your list of guests. You had a guest, one of your guests was an infamous Twitter bomber. She stopped, but she used to and just people over tweeting the direct URL to the file and the bots hit it and they think their numbers went up. I'm like, no, they don't.

Other bad ones are people's obsession with New and Notable. They just go crazy thinking they need to be featured in New and Noteworthy and you don't and there's bad advice about New and Noteworthy, people think the algorithm gets you on the front page, it does not. It's hand placed on the front page, the algorithm works in the back on the smaller subpages and people think it has better value than it really does.

I mean, Porter's podcast was featured on the front page of iTunes. My most recent show was featured up there. It's called KC Startup 411. It was featured, front page, iTunes. It was worth 300 download per episode. You know, for that episode that was out during that time it was featured, that was it and people work and constitute too often on the wrong things and think and this is the biggest thing, people think there's a magic bullet for guaranteeing you listenership, there isn't. Anybody that tells you they guarantee you they'll grow your audience is basically reaching around right now sitting your fingers in your back pocket trying to take money out of your wallet. You know, it's not true. There was someone, I think it was Corey, anybody that says, what was Corey's line, anybody that tells you you have a problem and they have a solution…

Harry:
Yeah, yeah.

Rob:
Yeah. Yeah,

Harry:
That was great.

Rob:
Yeah. Everybody knows. Everyone knows there is what they call “a discoverability issue” in podcasting, which there isn't. Every thinks – knows that everyone who is a podcast feels that way, feels that, you know, they need to get their show bigger, everybody wants their show bigger, doesn't matter who it is. Everyone. Marc wants his show bigger, that's why he had the President on. Everybody. Dan Carlin wants his show bigger, he's happy that he's 3million plus an episode, but he wants it bigger, everybody wants it bigger, Tim Ferriss. All these guys want it bigger. I had a call from Tim Ferriss about six months ago. It was about December and he was like, hey, Rob, how do I get my show bigger? So, he's sitting there calling me, he's calling John Lee Dumas. He's calling people trying to grow his show and I'm like, damn, I wish I had your audience already.

Harry:
Yeah, exactly.

Rob:
So, you know, everyone wants it bigger and people know that and that's why brings out the snake oil salesman and they know if they go out and they say, hey, pay $700 for my webinar, I'm going to show you how to grow your audience, people are going to do it and they're going to take the money gleefully and people hand it over gleefully, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. None of the advice works. All that matters is you have a good show and you've got good word of mouth marketing and your audience is telling your friends and if your audience is telling your friends, none of that other stuff matters.

Harry:
Yeah, it's so important, definitely bears repeating. Corey's quote, I pulled it up, is, beware of anybody who points out your problem and has the solution for sale.

Rob:
Yeah and that's what these people are doing, because they know everyone thinks they have a discoverability, a growth issue, because everyone feels that way. If you ask a 1,000 podcasters what's more important to them, growing their audience or monetizing their audience, 999 of them are going to tell you growing your audience.

Harry:
Yeah, because I'm producing a podcast for a client and they don't have a lot of downloads, but the impact – they're up to maybe episode 15, but the impact that they've had just simply because of the quality of the guests they had, the fact that the guests they've had are referring him to other shows and he's already been asked to speak at a conference, I mean, this is not even close to 10,000 downloads, so it's really and it's really what supports what you're saying, it's quality, not quantity if you get the right people and you focus on putting out a good show every week, your'e going to develop a loyal tribe of listeners.

Rob:
And they'll tell and that's the thing, if your audience is happy with your show, they're going to tell their friends and family. They're going to review it. The fake reviews or the ‘review my show, I’ll review your show scam, you know, all that ever does is raise a red flag to people about who you shouldn't interview on your show.

When people are out there going, hey, I'll review your show if you review mine, they're waving this flag saying my show sucks, my show sucks. That's the impression that they're giving. Maybe their show doesn't suck, but that's the impression they're giving when they go out there and they say that and I try and tell people don't, don't do that.

Get your own audience to review your show, don't waste your time reviewing other people's shows that you're not listening to. Concentrate on your own core audience. If you, if you're out there spending your time trying to get strangers who don't listen to your show to review your show, you're wasting time. Spend that on better content, better production, and better communication with your own audience.

Harry:
Amen. The other stat that you had out was misconception of the number of downloads per episode.

Rob:
Yeah. Everyone thinks their numbers, you know, because they hear these people running around giving numbers and they lie. They lie, they lie, they lie. They've always lied about numbers. Go off color here, you know, I always say a podcaster is more likely to tell you the true length of his male member than he is of his own download numbers.

Harry:
That might be a tweetable.

Rob:
Before I started Libsyn, there was a guy running around saying he gets 60,000 downloads an episode. 60,000. I'm like, there's no way this gets his numbers. His show is not that good. There's no way. First day on the job at Libsyn, I contacted Dave and I was like, hey, how do I get in to check someone's stats and they go, oh, here, here's how you do it. I go in and look at his numbers. Best episode ever, 600.

Harry:
Wow.

Rob:
Yeah. He's running around telling people this. So, what we try to do on the feed, as you've heard, every month, I give what we call the median number and the adjust mean and the median number is, I'll look at all the episodes we're downloaded, the month, not the past month, but the month prior to that and I look at those downloads up to the end of the following month, so for example, for March of 2015, any episodes that were released in March of 2015, I looked at those numbers at the end of April, the last day of April and I look at those numbers and the median, when I looked down that spreadsheet, basically said, oh, those x number, say 50,000 episodes released that month, 20 episodes, 2500 in the spreadsheet, how many downloads does it have? When I sort it from high to low.

The median number was a 160 for March and then I also look at what's called the adjusted mean, so I take the top half percent out. I take anything with three or fewer downloads out, and that gives me what I consider a more realistic average. I do that because we have such big shows, it can skew it up by quite a bit. In March, that number was 1,761. Now, to put that in perspective, I just ran those numbers this morning for downloads that happened in May, so I looked at where they were at the end of June and the median number was a 154, so pretty close to that 160 and the average was actually up to 2,005 and just to put it in prescriptive, that's actually traditionally where its been. The 1,761 was actually really low. The 2,000 to 2,100 range is kind of where we've seen the median or the average mean be.

Now, what people don't realize is some other numbers here. If you actually look at, if you're in the top 20% of podcasts, again, these are ones we released on Libsyn. If you're getting 1,300 downloads per episode or more, you're in the top 20%. If you're getting 3,500 downloads or more, you're in the top 10%. If you're getting 5,000 downloads or more, you're in the top 8%. Top 5% would be about 9,500 and if you have over 42,000, you're in the top 1%.

Harry:
What about if you have 60,000 downloads?

Rob:
If you have 60,000 per episode, then you're going to be in the top 1%.

Harry:
You're a big fat liar.

Rob:
By the way, you're not doing a podcast about podcasting, because a podcast about podcasting don't get over 5,000 downloads an episode.

Harry:
Okay, so I have a number to shoot for.

Rob:
Yeah, if you have a podcast about podcasting, the glass ceiling is kind of the 5,000 range. If you can get to that number, great. The feed, we're doing 2,200 right now. I just went and looked. Elsie gave some numbers, I think, we a little off when you hear the next episode come out, but I actually went and it's like, that didn't sound right. I went into today and look and I was like, we're at 2,200 per episode, so that's where we are. We'll have a correction in the episode after that.

Harry:
The feed also is the podcast you do with Elsie Escobar and it's just your way of, like I guess communicating back to the Libsyn community?

Rob:
And podcasters. You know, we do it not just for Libsyn, we talk about the Libsyn stuff, but most of the time we talk about podcasting items, you know, and we try to educate people on what's real, what isn't real and try to, you know, chase them away from the shucksters, you know, let them know you don't need a WordPress site to have a podcast, which is a big misconception out there that, you know, just different myths that are out there on podcasting.

We go over and I get on my soapbox and do my little rants here and there, but Elsie does the whole production work, which is great, so I don't have to do anything but show up and talk and research ahead of time, but you know, it's a fun show. Elsie and I have known each other for many years before she worked at Libsyn. Before I worked at Libsyn, I had interview Elsie on Podcast411 for her podcast, so when I got hired at Libsyn, the first thing I did was hire Elsie, so that was the first hire I made.

Harry:
That was a smart move.

Rob:
That wasn't, you know, Elsie is just the sweetest, nicest person and she's technically savvy and she understands podcasting and she understands this community, so it's just a great asset having at Libsyn.

Harry:
Well, it's one of my must listens for the week. You guys make a really good team. She provides just the crazy energy and you've got like all the historical context and the stats and I think I love when you guys butt heads too, because that's always fun to listen to.

Rob:
We're not going to agree on everything. We have fun.

Harry:
That's good. That's what makes it a good show. So, what do you have lined up in terms of – you're speaking at Podcast Movement?

Rob:
I'm speaking at Podcast Movement. I'll be talking about the Libsyn back-end and I'll be talking about iTunes and how iTunes works and kind of get a mixture of those two in there and where to go find things to optimize in iTunes. You know, a lot of people still don't understand iTunes search works, they don't know understand how the top 200 list work. There's a lot of misconceptions out there about how iTunes works and that was one of my presentation at New Media Expo. We went over that. I'm going to take a little bit of that into this, but more talk about Libsyn and the back-end and how to optimize your podcast for iTunes and for other things and tools and how to work with Twitter and Facebook and stuff like that.

Harry:
And the other thing to remember is if you're a Libsyn customer, make sure you bring some flyers, right?

Rob:
Bring some business cards. I mean, bring your business cards. Put them out. We always put them out on the table. That's one – I started doing this as a way to shame podcasters into getting business cards for their shows, because it's like, you know what, I'm going to have podcasts put them out that I know have them and I just said, hey, start putting them out here and more started coming by and going, hey, I do have – I'll put them out and others are going man, I really need to get cards. I should have my show. I should have cards. I have I could have my show right there, being exposed. I'm like, yes, you could, because ever show I do, we put the business cards out. There will be multiple people that will come by and grab cards almost from every show.

Harry:
Yeah, I've seen those people.

Rob:
They'll like, some of them will say to me, I'm looking for something new to listen, but more importantly, I'm looking for people to interview.

Harry:
Ah.

Rob:
And if you don't have your card out, you miss an opportunity to be interview by that person, which means you missed an opportunity for exposure for your show.

Harry:
Valuable advice and that's one of the main reasons I'm always listening to your show, because I pick up little tips here and there. There's no one show that's going to give you all the information you need, so you kind of have to have like a core group and that's why I listen to so many podcasts about podcasts.

Rob:
Yeah, so, you are part of that 5,000, that group of 5,000 that robes around listening to different podcasts about podcasting.

Harry:
I think I'm at my limit, though. Hopefully there's no more coming out that are good, because I'll be forced to find time to listen to them.

Rob:
I have to bring Podcast411 back some day. I actually have an interview with Ben Greenfield that's been in the can for a year and a half. That's the next episode. Poor Ben. I'm glad he's a friend and he's not mad at me for doing that interview and I haven't released it and I've got one for Tim Ferriss that I interviewed for my other one, KC Startup that I have to release my interview with him, so I gotta get down here before this month is up.

Harry:
Ben Greenfield's podcast is fantastic. He's prolific with his output as well.

Rob:
Yes, yes he is. He's just a mad man.

Harry:
In podcasting and in real life, too. So, as you think about what's been happening and having been in podcasting for such a long time, what still gets you excited about what's coming up and maybe we don't have to look too far out, because things change so rapidly, so thinking forward, like next 6-12 months, what's got you excited?

Rob:
Well, the Spotify announcement, being in that. Spotify (#61:03). Seeing that these online streaming services are now understanding that it's not just music that people want more than just music, so getting in there. Hopefully we'll see Pandora come around eventually, who knows, but I'm hoping they realize, hey, Apple music and the podcast app are there and Spotify now has podcasts and they're going to realize they need to keep people in their app and their ecosystem and to do that, you're going to have to give people that like to listen to stuff, more stuff to listen to. So, what excites me is that. That streaming world of music is now embracing the podcast side of things and that's good for podcasting.

The smartphones, again, taking over last month, 69.33% of all our downloads were directly to mobile device sets, an all time high, which meant computers were an all time low, which is good, because I really need to do it for the next episode, I thought about doing it. I don't have time today, but I'm going to go back and look at, okay, back when computers were 65%, how many downloads that actually mean and today when they're at 30%, is it the same number.

So, in other words, how is the growth gone versus the percentage change. Is it percentage changing because less people are downloading it on a computer or is it just that so many more people are downloading on mobile and I think what I'm going to find is that the computer numbers are about the same, maybe even a little bit higher, so I want to see if it's higher or lower or right about the same of where it was three years ago on a monthly basis.

Harry:
And Google's role in that podcasting future? You know they're working on an app, right?

Rob:
Well, Google and podcasting, they've done nothing so far, so someday maybe, who knows. I think Google is just waiting for the – maybe they're thinking that the self-driving cars are coming and people will just watch videos in the cars, so they've given up on podcasting and consecrated on that, but there's nothing that I know out there of, you know, that Google's got for a podcast app natively for, you know, their version of the podcast app. It'll be nice. It would really be nice, but…

Harry:
I'm surprised no one has made a t-shirt for you that says, Google is not podcasting's friend.

Rob:
Yeah. I've been quoted a few times saying that and to date, they haven't done anything and people are like, I get Android fan boys send me hate mail. You know, I'm like, I'm sorry, but you can't be a podcaster and berate Apple and put Google on a pedestal, because Google has done nothing for podcasting to date and Apple has done everything.

That's why, what was it last month, 60, where's the percentage at, 67.57% of all downloads last month to Libsyn were from Apple software, mostly that being iTunes and Apple in the podcast app. To put that in perspective, all the other third party agitator apps out there for all the other platforms, 6.5%. So, that's Stitcher and TuneIn and Instacast and Shifty Jelly Pocket Cast and Overcast, all of those things combined were 6.5%

Harry:
Wow.

Rob:
Less than one tenth of what Apple was.

Harry:
Interesting stats and I just love the fact that you have them all handy.

Rob:
You said talk stats.

Harry:
Talk stats. So, as we wrap up here, do you ever find time to do anything that's not podcast related?

Rob:
I do a little bit, yes. Me and the wife, we like to do our binge watching on Netflix.

Harry:
Okay. What have you been watching recently?

Rob:
What I actually did with her is we binged watched, she had never watched Game of Thrones.

Harry:
Oh man.

Rob:
So, I was basically caught up and we went back and I watched with her from the beginning. So, we started was season five was starting, we went back and I watched with her seasons one through four and got her in and caught her up. So, that was fun, because I was like, oh, wait a second, I forgot about that. I forgot about when Needle got stolen and who it was that stole Needle and just thinking, wow, Sansa got really pretty as she got older and Arya not so much.

Harry:
What must have been crazy for you to like be biting our lip for some of those season ending scenes, just like, wait for it, wait for it.

Rob:
I actually at one point – I can't do a spoiler, but there was one scene, the wedding scene, the wedding episode and we're getting to that and my wife started to get up, she was watching and she was going to fold laundry. I go, this is not the episode you want to fold laundry. I go, just sit down and watch this episode and when that episode was over, she was like a lot of people like, oh my God, they killed them all. It's like and she couldn't believe it, you know, and I said, you know.

We're not going to watch another episode. I want you to sit with that feeling for a day. I go, because people had to sit with that for a week to watch the next episode. She's like, no, no, I want to watch the next episode and I go, no, you have to sit with that feeling for a day. So, I made her sit for a day with that feeling of, you know, because that was, if anyone has watched Game of Thrones knows that wedding scene, that episode, after the episode you're like oh my God.

Harry:
It sucked the air out of you, it was so, we binged watched. I mean, we didn't start watching till season five, so we binged watched through that one and I was – I mean, I haven't seen a scene like that on TV I think, you know, ever. Maybe there's one or two people can think of, but it was just one of those things like, wow, this show will just go anywhere.

Rob:
Anybody is fair game to die and I told Karen that. That's what I told her early on. I go look, I go, when she realized after the second death. I go, Karen, anybody can die at any point. She always need on me, is this person going to die? I will give you no spoilers. I'm like, I will not answer you. You ask me a question, I'm not ignoring you, I'm just not answering. I go, I don't want to tip my hat.

So, I try to be spoiler free in my household. Ever since Podcast411, I actually did a spoiler on that episode and I got a couple of people, Evo Terra, got really mad at me, because I mentioned that Star Buck died and I was doing an interview and we talked about Star Buck dying and he had TiVo-ed and he hadn't gotten up to that point and he was like, you bastard! You son of a bitch! Sorry you have to edit there. He was all mad at me and he probably could still you that I ruined it for him.

Harry:
Yeah, it's a good time to be watching TV. We watched Walking Dead and there's a new Walking Dead coming out and it basically starts in Los Angeles, I think.

Rob:
There's a new spin-off?

Harry:
Yeah, the spin-off is going to be what happened as people were turning in Los Angles, so basically the other side of the country.

Rob:
Cool. That's a good idea for them and I love that show. My wife ill not watch it. That's too. As violent as Game of Thrones is, that is the gore she can't handle. That's just gore for gore's sake. She even Game of Thrones, she was a little, guh.

Harry:
That gets pretty gory as well. Alright Rob, thanks so much. You've been super generous with your time.

Rob:
Well, thank you and thanks for hosting with Libsyn.

Harry:
Yes, always glad. Nothing but good things to say and I'm sure the more people that join, they're going to find not only the service, but I think the other added bonus is the community. You guys are really active and Elsie does a great part. I think every social media channel she's got covered.

Rob:
Yeah, so she does all the – if you are on Facebook or Twitter, that's Elsie that's answering those questions. She does a really good job on it and every now and again I'll see something pop and before I can even email her to say something, she's already responded. I'm like, oh, cool. So, she's making me lazy, but yeah, Elsie does a great job and if anyone wants to reach me, I make myself very approachable. I put my cards out at any shows.

You can email me Rob (at) Libsyn.com and I'll answer any questions you have about podcasting and if you're interesting in podcasting, I have a free iBook out there that's in the Apple store, just search for Podcast 101, it's a free book that'll take you from nothing to a podcast in a matter of an hour and a half, two houses and for no money. I'll teach you how to podcast.

Harry:
Zero is a good price.

Rob:
Zero is a good price. Yep.

Harry:
Alright, Rob, enjoy your weekend and have a great day.

Rob:
Yes, are you going to Minions?

Harry:
I will try to get to Minions, but my wife is actually a fan, so I think we might actually try to see it this weekend.

Rob:
I'm going to see if my son wants to dress up for Minions, because we should do that cosplay. It'll be his first chance for cosplay. So, there's the other thing. You asked for hobbies, with the kids.

Harry:
Are you on Instagram? Are you going to post a picture about that?

Rob:
If we go tomorrow and I dress up as Gru and he dresses up as a Minion, yes. I will post that on Instagram and my Instagram is /TodayiniOS.

Harry:
Perfect. Alright, thanks again, Rob.

Rob:
Alright, thanks, Harry.

Harry:
I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Rob Walch, VP of Libsyn, podcast host extraordinaire. Podcast411, Today in iOS, Libsyn's The Feed, just an all around good guy, good sense of humor. I always like that about people and really important ambassador, in my opinion, for podcasting, because of his position in the industry with Libsyn and his history. I mean, he's been podcasting since 2004.

So, I would tend to think that he's got a couple of things to say about podcasting speaking from experience. If you get a chance to see him at an upcoming conference, I highly recommend you check him out. You might actually learn something.

Music for this show is always produced by Cedar and Soil. That's Cedarsoil.com. Check him out. It's Cedar and Soil, but it's one person. It's a really good friend of mine. Been podcasting with – not podcasting with me, but help me put together the music and was actually my musical curator at the beginning when I was actually putting tracks at the end of each episode. You'll find those at the beginning. I had to put the kibosh on that, because I was worried about copyright issues. Immensely talented producer/performer. Check out his videos and his music. You will not be disappointed and thanks again for the listeners.

You guys who keep coming back week after week, the hashtag, the true fan hashtag, I gotta come up with a name for this thing. I have a friend of mine, shout out to Jessie Lawler. He calls it the ruthless retention gimmick and he mentions it at the beginning of his show, that's where I got the idea, so I'm giving credit where credit is due.

The hashtag for this week is Atari800. Old school console, not a lot of people are familiar with it, but if you listen this long, just let us know. Harry is me @Podcast_Junkies is my Twitter and Rob is @Podcast411 #Atari800 if you've made it this far. Just a nice way of keeping track of who the real Podcast Junkies, Junkies, Junkies are. That's it.

Subscribe. PodcastJunkies.com/iTunes. I say Podcast Junkies a lot, don't I? Show some love for the podcast and subscribe. IF you haven't subscribed already, just go to iTunes, pull up the show, hit the subscribe button, and that's all you have to do for today. That's your good deed for the day and tell a friend. Okay, maybe two good deeds for the day. Thanks again for all your support, all your love. It is immensely appreciated. I'm really excited about looking for these guests, the last couple have really inspired me. I'm so happy to be doing this. I'm happy that you're listening and I'm happy to be alive today. See ya.

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