John Corcoran Transcript

Nicole Welch Transcript

Harry:

Welcome back this is the, seems like the, 10th take of this intro. I actually switched over to standing up for this as I usually do for most of my interviews. What I find is that I get better energy level, get the diaphragm opened up and much more excited when I'm speaking to my guests and when I'm recording this audio. Highly recommend that if you don't do that now, you can give that a shot. It does wonders for your energy.

 

I'm excited about today's show. We've got John Corcoran, who was actually referred to me by a mutual friend, Joshua Jordison, so shout out to JJ. You can find him over at JoshuaJordison.com and he put us in touch and we connected. It was a great fit and I think the topic John covers, networking, is really invaluable as we get into the episode, you'll hear some really genuine nuggets of wisdom from all of John's years of experience doing this. He actually put me in touch with other potential guests after the show. The man is constantly networking and he understands the power of constantly giving, which is important.

 

It's what Gary Vaynerchuk refers to in the book, “Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook.” And you just always constantly give value and just look for opportunities to help people out where ever you can, so sometime down the road you need something, it'll just be a natural gift for that person because you've helped them out in the past. It shouldn't be something that you're looking out for or you're doing it with the intention of getting something back, because again, that would just defeat the purpose.

 

Another bit of interesting good news is that we have our first sponsor of the show. It actually happens to be a project of mine, it's called PrdCnf.com and it's an acronym for Productivity Conference. It's an event that's going to be held in December of 2015 here in the Las Angeles area. It's in the works now. You're going to be hearing more about as the weeks progress and possible on another spinoff show that I might be working on, but for now, it's the sponsor of this particular episode. To sign up for more details there's a launch page at PrdCnf.com, it's PrdCnf. I'm really excited about that. I'm hoping to bring in some very interesting folks to that conference, so stayed tuned for more.

 

So without further adieu, John Corcoran and the power of networking. Oh, by the way! We have some additional giveaways from John. Almost forgot. He's got a little give away for listeners of the show, but you're going to have to listen all the way the end to get the URL and the details, so stayed tune for that as well.

 

So John Corcoran, thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule. I'm a really big fan of the podcast and thanks for coming on Podcast Junkies.

 

John:

Hey. My pleasure Harry. Glad to be here.

 

Harry:

I was very, I was listening to one of your recent shows with Jordan from the Art of Charm and it was interesting, because the beauty of having a podcast is it can help you as a research tool as well. *Laughter*.

 

John:

Yeah, I say it's like your professional development doubling as marketing.

 

Harry:

Yeah so, it's interesting because what I did with interview with Jordan is I listened to him interviewing you and then I thought, “Okay,” and then I found you had interviewed him as well. So it's interesting to hear you on both sides of the microphone so to speak, but what struck me the most was the way you guys dove into the power of networking. You've worked in the past for folks like Bill Clinton and Steven Spielberg. I know a lot of what you've done has lend you to this path and I think starting at the beginning what I'm interested in is if you thought of the podcast, when you started it, as a networking tool?

 

John:

I don't think I realized it's full potential as a tool for building your network. I had done interviews over the phone, which weren't..it wasn't like a true podcast. I mean, and this is actually a great way for people to get started. I mean, I had a blog and I was like, “I wanna do interviews,” so I just record an interview using FreeConferenceCall.com, record, and then I would post it basically not using a separate host like Libsyn that you pay for, but just like hosting it directly in my blog and it didn't into iTunes or anything like that and sometimes I'd transcribe the interview and put it on my blog.

 

You know, real basic way to get started. Doesn't cost you hardly anything, it also doesn't get you much audience because it's not in iTunes, it's not in Stitcher. That kind of thing, but it was as much as I could handle from a technical background.

 

So I realized its potential and I just realized, “Okay, I'm going to formalize this. I'm going to make this an actual podcast. I'm going to give it an actual name. Going to try and do it on a regular basis and I'm going to use it in order to reach out and build relationships.” And, also, I'm thinking about it just from the perspective of, you know, me professionally, I'm lawyer. I was then, I still am a practicing lawyer. My clientele are small business owners and entrepreneurs and a lot of them struggled with the different things that I was able to interview people about.

 

Literally now it's like if I meet someone, whether it's like a client, a potential client, or just an entrepreneur that I admire, a business owner that I admire and they explain to me that they're struggling with something, I can probably point them to a podcast interview that I've done that would be a value to them. It's got multiple different dimensions to it.

 

On one hand, you're building a relationship with the person that you're interviewing or if you're being interviewed, you're building a relationship with that person like we are right now. And then, you're also, it's doubling as professional development, you're learning, you're educating yourself at the same time about something. I learn about all kinds of different things that help me and my business and you're building a relationship with your audience, people who listen to it are getting to know you and sometimes they want to hire you for whatever service that you provide, so there's multiple different dimensions to having a podcast.

 

Harry:

So how long were you doing the blog before you decided to jump into the podcasting?

 

John:

Let's see, I've been writing for the web forever. I mean like, since the mid 90's off and on, but I didn't have a regular blog. I started blogging earnest about either late 2007 or beginning of 2008 and then I re-branded in about spring of 2012. I started the podcast in September 2012, so about 6 months later.

 

Harry:

Do you feel like there was maybe a tipping point when you first started? Was there any apprehension about jumping into podcasting, because you hadn't done it before and there's probably not the slew maybe around the time you started of resources now on how to podcast. You know, there's Pat Flynn videos, Cliff Ravenscraft videos all over the web on how to get started, but I wonder who was your guide as you were getting this kicked off?

John:

Actually, that was a big barrier. The technical limitations, like trying to figure out how to get it setup and I was totally bootstrapping it. I didn't want to spend any money to have someone set it up for me, although in retrospect, I probably would've started about 6 months earlier. I have the Cliff Ravenscraft videos I'd seen because he has a bunch of free videos on there and I'd watch through those, but he has a more elaborate process. He bought all kinds of equipment and he records into an audio recorder and it was confusing to me and I wasn't sure how to do it.

 

I don't remember him having videos that were showing me how to upload to Libsyn and send things up in Libsyn. It was until actually the Pat Flynn videos came out around August or September 2012 that showed you step-by-step how to go through it all. Literally those were the ones that made the difference, like watching those were what showed me how to do and I finally broke through and got it all posted. Now, I have a VA that does the post-production for me, so I don't get as involved in that stuff.

 

Harry:

I think the holy grail for every podcaster is to just show up, record the episodes, and then literally have the magic happen afterwards. The post shows up on WordPress magically like transported to all the social media networks and socializes. *Laughter*.

 

John:

I think that it's valuable to get to that point, but it's also valuable to know how it works in the back end. Some people are just tech people and they just love doing kind of thing. I mean, I have a friend who has a very high-trafficked podcast that he should have outsourced that stuff, he continues to do it himself because he likes doing it.

 

Harry:

Yeah, I'm still doing my own editing, just because I like..something I picked up from Srinivas Rao when I interviewed him. He likes listening to the audio to figure out opportunities for where he could have a different question or ask a question that he might have missed and he sort of learns and it's sort of like watching the replay tape if you're a football player on Monday to see where you could have improved the process.

 

John:

Yeah, that's actually something Kalup Waject recommended to me. We're talking about this a number of months of ago and he said, “So how often do you listen to your own podcast?” and I was like, “Not that often.” He was like, “Well, how do you know what it's like for the listener? You might be telling the same story again, week after week, and they're getting really bored with it.” I was like, “Oh, that's a good point.” There is real value to listening to it and just, my dad was in broadcast TV, live-broadcast TV, a local TV news reporter for about 20-25 years and so I come from that background. I know there's tremendous value to listening to something so you hear all the, ‘ums' and the, ‘Ahs', and the things you stumble over and the ways you can ask the question better. There's real value to learning those skills.

 

Harry:

Yeah, you mentioned your dad. One of the things you talked about on a previous interview you had was the importance of looking for every opportunity to strike up a conversation or to engage with people and start out. I think you were talking about the time you were waiting in line to get a picture with Bill Clinton and your dad had…you had found out that he had been a fan of westerns and I think you put a couple of DVDs together and you bundled them up, so when you got to him, obviously, it's something that caught his eye and he was immediately interested. I thought that was a fascinating takeaway and it's something that I think you can do even in your podcasting if you take the time to engage with your guest on a more personal level. I think you'll get a more valuable conversation.

 

John:

Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you're trying to be helpful to the audience. For your audience, for Podcast Junkies's audience, if there's anything that you can do to help them out, I think that just makes you a better guest overall if you do that. And that story, I'll just tell it real quickly for the benefit of your listeners, so I worked in the Clinton White House as a writer in the Clinton White House at a very young age in retrospect. I was 23 years old. Very fortunate I didn't go to an Ivy league school, I didn't come from a well connected family in order to get that job. I just, basically, was good at managing relationships.

 

I was an intern and then afterwards built relationships with the speech writers, remained in touch, heard about this job, applied, and got it. I worked there for a couple of years. They do, I don't know if they still do it, the historic radio address is recorded by the President, usually on the weekends, on Saturday or Sunday morning, and the way they do it is that they do it in the oval office if he's in town. The VIPs get to come in and watch him record it and then get a picture with him. There's 150 people and we knew that the photo line would go really quickly, so we brought these DVDs in order to get a little bit more time with him.

 

I got a tip from a friend that worked in another office that he was collecting old western movies, so we brought these westerns and we handed it over. We ended up having a 5 to 10 minute conversation with the President standing there in the heart of power, with the most powerful man in the world, and the reason I tell that story on various different podcasts is because I want to illustrate for people that if I can do that with the most powerful man in the world, if I can stop  all the VIPs in line, and have a conversation about something as personal as just talking about old western movies, then you could do that as well for a person that you admire, a person you look up to, a person that you want to meet.

 

And podcast is actually a tremendous tool for doing that, because now you don't need to ask people to meet you for coffee at a Starbucks, which is nearly impossible to do the more busy someone gets. You can actually have a podcast or, as I said earlier, record something and just post it on your blog, and you're actually providing value to them because you're providing exposure to them.

 

Harry:

Yeah. I think one of the things you touched on was the power of that reach, because the phone call or the coffee conversation just helps one person, where as you take this conversation and put it online, it's just exponentially larger the retake can have.

 

John:

Yeah, the example I always give is if I call up Guy Kawasaki or Dan Pink and I said, “Hey guys! I'm going to be in your neighborhood next weekend. Do you want to meet me at a Starbucks for 45 minutes so I can pick your brain about the questions I have and apply it to my business?” They'd be like, “Screw you. Go away.”

 

But, because I reached out to both of them and said, “I've got a podcast, can I spend 45 minutes, can I record it, ask you questions, record it, and then publish it to a platform that has infinity reach and will be up for as long as the internet is up.”

 

It makes a huge difference. Huge difference. So, doing that, making that one little change, really opens the doors. I've been fortunate to have some amazing guests on my podcast who I've been able to build relationships with just because of having the podcast.

 

Harry:

Have you noticed the change in your approach into how you go after guests or types of guests you're willing to have on your show? Obviously in the beginning, like most podcasters do, they want to get their feet wet, they want to talk to anyone who will listen to them or anyone who will jump on a Skype call, but did you noticed that change either with the popularity with the show or just you feeling more comfortable as a host?

 

John:

Well, I still have a list of a zillion people I want to have on the podcast. I'm of the opinion when it comes to podcast, it is kinda still a small universe, especially when you narrow it down even further into like entrepreneurship. I imagine this is the same if you narrow it down to health and fitness or you narrow it down to comedy or something. They tend to be the same people who are guests on a lot of different podcasts.

 

There's pros and cons to that approach. On the other hand, they tend to be well prepared. They tend to be good guests. That makes it easier for the podcast listener, makes it better and easier for the podcast host, makes it more engaging for the podcast listener. On the other hand, it can be very boring if the same people get on every podcast, so I like to introduce a little bit more variety and have a mix of people on my podcast.

 

On the other hand, there's no doubt people who got a large social media following can help get more exposure for your podcast by sharing it amongst their follow and that in turn can help you get more podcasts, better guests, and more listeners. That's why people tend to get the same guests over and over again. I try and variety it up and have some people who are frequent guests on other podcasts, but I also try and introduce new people.

 

Like for example, just yesterday I was interviewing a guy named David Shapiro, who's someone I know in my little community here. He founded a company called Cartelligent, which I know you live in LA now, they have a location in Las Angeles and they started in San Francisco Bay Area. They're like, you know how like miserable it is to buy a new car?

 

Harry:

Of course, yeah.

 

John:

You know how you hate. It's a horrible experience. For like, a couple of hundred bucks they'll step in and do it for you. And you won't even have to step into a dealership, because they'll deliver it to their location, you show up to them. They negotiate the price, the terms of the lease, or the purchase contract, or whatever, and they get it all done for you for a couple of hundred bucks. Totally worth it right?

 

Harry:

That's fantastic.

 

John:

Yeah, I know. We got a car through them before I met David, so I wanted to interview him to ask him about that. It's a very disruptive technology too, right, because it's disrupting the apple cart for the longest time. People just had to go into show rooms and buy cars and this is a different way of doing it. So, that was a really interesting interview, just bringing him on there, and that's actually another element to having a podcast is building a relationship with someone in your local community as well and introducing them to a larger audience.

 

For example, I've also interviewed other clients of mine. There's a photography who's doing some interesting things. I interviewed a guy who started a local professional sports team here. A local, independent, professional baseball team here. You know like, what's it like to start a sports team from scratch, right?

 

So that was fascinating, but the other way I'd say my guest selection has changed. Yeah, some of them have gotten, I've definitely been able to get bigger guests as I've gone along, because now I can say, “Hey, I've had Guy Kawasaki on, Dan Pink on, I've had Noah Kagan on.” When I say that to other people they're like, “Oh okay, this guy must be legit.”

 

But the other way my guest selection has changed is that just my blog, the focus on my blog has changed. I was more generally talking about entrepreneurship in general and I honed into what I write about now, what I talk about now, which is focusing on how to turn your relationships into revenue. How to build a network. How to build relationships with influencers and VIPs or just someone who matters to you in your local community. And then how to use that relationship to get more clients, to get better clients, to advance your career, to grow your income, and so I focus on that now. My guests tend to be more aligned with those particular goals.

 

Harry:

Is that something that happened as you started interviewing people and you noticed, because you had a podcast, because you were able to speak to people, and then maybe in your outside world too with some of the other groups that you're part of, that you're sorta, or maybe it's something you always knew, but the power of networking and the power of the people in your rolodex and your ability to connect people, because sometimes it may not be something where they can help you immediately, but you know these two people and you know those two people should meet and so, is that something that clicked one day and you're like, “You know what?” The network is actually more important than some of these other discussions about entrepreneurship, because everyone is talking about that.

 

John:

Yeah. It did click one day and it was, for me, looking back in retrospect in my career I was doing it with out consciously knowing that I was doing. For example, not everyone who is an intern at the White House gets a job at the White House. There are thousands of interns per year and a lot of them want to get a job there, but not all of them can, but I continued to remain in touch with the people who I knew who work there who would hear about the job, so that if the job came up, which it did, that they would tell me about it. And I did things like introduce them to other people or introduce them to other information.

 

Like I remember, I would send articles or other speeches back to the speech writers to give them valuable resources that I thought would be use to them and I just did that in part because, that's my nature. I tend to like to help people and in part I knew that was the way of keeping in touch with someone, so that they would look out for me if a job came up, without being obtrusive about it.

 

I mean, it's a lot more annoying to like call them up on a weekly basis and say, “Hi, remember me? Did you hear of a job yet? No? Okay, I'll call you in a week.” That will be really annoying, but by providing value to them is a better way of going about it.

 

Yeah, I've done this throughout my career and I worked in, as you mentioned, I worked for Steven Spielberg at DreamWorks early on, very early on after the company had been founded. On one of their early projects, I worked in the heart of Silicon Valley, across the street from eBay working with startup founders. Today I've got my own small boutique law firm catering to entrepreneurs and small business owners and relationships are 100% crucially important to keeping the lights on at that business because it's all about keeping relationships strong and getting referrals for that business, so it's critically important.

 

Harry:

Do you get the feeling that, people underestimate that skill set and maybe not so much in the circles you're in, you talk to people who do understand and that leads to the conversations that you can have, but sometimes you meet folks that are not in this world and even people, when you mention a podcast, you're like, “What's that?” You know?

 

John:

Yeah.

 

Harry:

Do you find sometimes it's not seen as the valuable tool that it really is?

 

John:

I think it's very easy to forget, because we get busy, we get focused on the work that we're doing, and so it's not really intentional often, it just kind of happens. We forget to reach out to someone or pretty soon 9 months or a year go by and they're not thinking of us and we're not thinking of them. So, you need to make it a habit in your life. That's definitely important to do that, but yeah, there's certainly people who don't see the value in reaching out to people you just met, spending time helping them out, when you don't see a direct return, or you don't know where there will be some return.

 

I mean, it's funny, I literally just interviewed Larry Benet, who calls himself The Connector and he's a speaker, author, consultant. He runs some high-level mastermind groups, does a tremendous job of connecting people and he was just telling some stories about ways in which he's connected in VIPs and helped them out.

 

He told me a story about connecting with Robert Shapiro, who was on O.J. Simpson's dream team. He's one of the co-founders of LegalZoom, very successful guy, he met him recently and then immediately after meeting him, like the following Saturday, spent a couple of hours spending out emails to invite other people that he knew to come to a fundraiser that Robert Shapiro and his wife were involved with, not because he thought he was going to get anything in return, but just because he knew that Robert Shapiro was a successful guy, an influential guy, they all lived in Las Angeles, and he knew if he builds a relationship with him, something good might come of it in the future and often it does.

 

When you build a relationship like that, you can't immediately take from that relationship, especially if it's someone who's very successful, because they're often looking out for people who are just takers, so you have to give, you have to provide value to that person, which means connecting them with other people who might be interested to attending a charity event that they're going to or introducing them to other people, who you think, or they think might be a good connection. Helping them with other resources, all kinds of different ways that you can provide people value to people.

 

Harry:

Yeah, almost like the networking muscle. The more you work on it, the better you get at it. It's people like that that do it subconsciously I imagine at some point, they always think, “What can I do to allow these people to network better together.” and it just comes naturally to folks like that.

 

John:

It does, but there are also tools that you can use too. Like, I'm a big fan of using Contactually, which is a CRM program. I've written about it on my site. That's not the only one out there, there's others out there, like Insightly, SalesForce is a famous one, Podio is another one, but basically it's a tool to manage all the relationships that you have.

 

When you think about the fact that relationships are so critically important and yet, we'll spend like $100,000 on an advanced degree or a BA, but we won't go and spend 20 or 30 bucks a month and a couple of hours of our time a week, focusing on building relationships, you know it's no wonder people struggle.

 

I mean, every time I get an email, and this has happened a long, long before I even wrote about it, but every time I get an email from someone who just got laid off, and I feel bad for them, but just got laid off and they email me out of the blue, and I haven't heard from them in 3 years, and it's like, “Hey, how you doing? By the way, looking for a job, do you know anything?”

 

Harry:

Yeah..

 

John:

You know that feeling?

 

Harry:

A lot of people are guilty about that. They don't think about that because what happens, especially at a moment like you losing a job right, you're in panic mode and you're just blasting out like 60 emails. You're connecting magically with everyone on LinkedIn all of sudden and it's like, “Oh man.” I'm sure we've all been there because we don't think of it as something you need to work on constantly. It's something everyday like you water the plant a little bit, that networking plant, you don't know when it's going to pay dividends, but you know it's important to keep it on going.

 

John:

It doesn't have to be just when you lose your job. I mean, obviously depends largely on what you do and it depends largely on what your goals are, so I always start with that when I'm talking with someone like, “What do you do now, what do you want to do, what do you want to do in the future?” And then what you should do, this is what I advise a lot of people to do, is create what I call a conversations list, which is a list of the 50 people that you want to connect with over the course of the next 12 months and build a relationship with.

 

They might be some people that you know already, they might be some people don't know at all, but might be someone that's really world famous like Richard Branson or someone like that or Jay-Z, but put them down, brainstorm around, and then take steps over the course of the next 12 months to try and build a relationship with them. And having a podcast obviously is a great tool, because that's one way, that's a great way, that you can build those relationships.

 

Harry:

It's almost like a networking visualization board, because I've heard you talk about it a couple of times and I think its a fantastic way to really set some goals around specifically around  networking and putting things into place and, like you said, if you have it in front of you, in front of your computer, taped on to your wall or something like that, you're always thinking you're staring at that list and saying, “I gotta do, I gotta move a little bit forward and start figuring out a way to contact some of these people that I haven't been reaching out to.”

 

John:

Yeah or if you use like a CRM program, they send you email reminders. Like, here are 5 people to follow up with in your network today and you can even prioritize them. So you can say, “This is someone who I want to follow up with every 30 days or 120 or 90 days. Once a year.” Or something like that, so it becomes a reminder. It comes up and also they tie in with your email and with your social media, so if you connected with them more recently, it resets the clock, which is really cool.

 

Harry:

That's good.

 

John:

Yeah. So you get a reminder, then it's also got email templates or content sharing templates. So say, you write an article and you want to share that with a lot of people, you can send an email blast that looks like a one-on-one email and just like, “Hey. I thought you'd be interested in this.” Of course, you don't want to pester people, you want it to be relevant to them, you want it to be a value to them, but these are tools that definitely help you build relationships with a larger group of people.

 

Harry:

Yeah, I'm a big fan of all these tools and I think on your recent episode you were talking about some o the ways you can connect tools like Zapier to automate some of the stuff as well, connect to MailChimp and help you automate some of that process. Contactually is fantastic. I've played with it a little bit, but I think I definitely need to dive in deeper. I'm big on productivity and almost like, when I tell people about Evernote, they're like, “Yeah, I've tried it.” No, but are you really use it to full capacity? I do now, because I love all things productivity related, so it's the same thing with Contactually. You have to use it and use it and use it every day to get the feel for how it can benefit you the most.

 

John:

Yeah, absolutely. You gotta get comfortable with it. Any of these types of tools, make sure that works with your goals, and that you're clear on what your goals are. Some people say to me that they have 3 different goals, and then it's like, well then you need to have 3 different lists of people that you want to build relationships with or that's really diversifying a lot of your efforts and energy.

 

So maybe a secondary goals like you're passionate about a particular charity and that's fine, but as far as your career goal goes, you need to focus on this list of 50 people and building relationships with them. You know the charity that you work on can be sort of a side thing or it can sometimes be complimentary, like become a member of a board of a local charity can be a great way to build relationships with other people who are influential in your local community, so it can be complimentary as well.

 

Harry:

So when you talk about making, having the one goal for you, the 50 names would be one goal. Like, I have the one goal of connecting with these 50 people.

 

John:

When I'm talking about goals, I'm talking about where do you want to be 3-5 years from now. Do you want to continue to be in the job you are now or with the company you are with right now and maybe be a little bit higher on the ladder, making better income, or do, 3-5 years from now, do you want to be in a completely different profession? Do you want to be self-employed or do you want to be working for yourself, do you want to have a small business?

 

You know, often times people don't think through that first step and here's what happens, their network ends up not supporting their long term goals, because they don't think through that first step. So if the first step is you want to stay working for the company that you're in right now and you just want to work away up the ladder, that's going to be a different list of people.

 

If you want to go to a completely different industry, if you're a yoga instructor right now and you wanna be a real estate agent, then the people you want to build relationships with are going to be completely different. If you want to start your own business, the list of people that you're going to build relationships with is going to be completely different.

 

You have to be clear on what that first goal is, so that you can then decide who the people are that are going to support that goal.

 

Harry:

So you have to give it some thought and not just create the 50 names that come up, like you said, the Michael Jordons, the Guy Kawasakis, the Gary Vaynerchuks, just because you think they're people you should be connecting with. If they're not aligned with your goal, it's a total disconnect.

 

John:

Yeah, that's true. Often times, people will look up to someone and they'll be like, “Oh, that person's famous.” And there's something good that will come with that, so they'll try and connect with them, but they're not really someone that they can build a relationship with. You know, so sometimes it's a fine line there.

 

Definitely a fine line, whether you really want to put your energy on that. Sometimes, your time is better spent building relationships with people a little bit further down the ladder, who aren't quite as successful. I don't want to dissuade people from connecting with someone because they feel like that person's too successful.

 

I mean like, this Larry Benet was telling me about a bunch of stories about some phenomenally successful people that he connected with and built relationships with, just by reaching out to them. He told a story about reaching out to Jay Abraham, who's a famous author and marketing guru. He heard somehow that Jay Abraham was coming to Georgia where he lived at the time.

 

He was coming with his son, who was 9 years old, and so, Larry ended up connecting with this science museum, someone at the science museum, and approaching the science museum, talk about a win-win. He went to the science museum and said, “How would you like to give a VIP tour to this guy Jay Abraham who's coming to Georgia, who by the way is one of the leading marketing minds of his generation.” So they thought, “Oh, wow, yeah absolutely. We'll give the VIP tour.” So it was mutually beneficial. He put them together and that's how he built a relationship with Jay Abraham.

 

Harry:

That's fantastic. Yeah, I guess he made the most of that situation and he figured out where he could get a win for both people. I think the only thing I was thinking about it's always about the right place and the right time, because sometimes you want to meet and speak with someone famous, but if you're not prepared, like if you haven't established your podcasting interview skills, for example, or you haven't been doing this enough time, it's almost the case of be careful of what you ask for. They could show up on your show or you could get introduced to them, but if you have nothing to add to the conversation that peaks their interest, it's almost like a missed opportunity.

 

John:

Right. Sometimes I feel that way honestly about who are social media gurus. There's a number of them out there, right. I'm active on Twitter and I'm on Facebook, but I'm social media guru and so, I've interviewed a few people who kinda experts in social media and my questions are generally not that good. *Laughter*.

 

You know? So I think, it definitely starts with a genuine interest. It starts with that kind of genuine interest. And follow that, you know what I mean? Be cognizant of the people who are listening to the interview that you're doing and who you're introducing to your audience, even when your audience is small, but also be sure you're following what you're interested in, what your passionate about.

 

Harry:

Yeah, because that will come through. When you listens to podcast, if the hosts really just get all crazy and dropping F-bombs sometimes because they're so excited. They don't know what to do. It's like, “I love this topic so much, I love you guys so much.” They're just..You listen to so attentively to these people because they speak to you.

 

I feel like I'm having these conversations directly to folks. I listen to Scott Britton, the Life-LongLearner podcast and a new one with Performance Enhancing podcast with Ilan Ferdman. When these guys speak I feel like, you really feel like they're talking to you, and that's the feeling you want to convey as a podcast host and that's what you're looking for when you listen to podcast. A lot of the ones that are just monotonous and repetitive are definitely the ones I've unsubscribed from.

 

John:

Yeah, isn't that funny? I mean, I made that mistake early on. Like, during the early interviews. They give their first answer to the first question and it's really kind of pedestrian and mundane and your response is, “Oh, that's awesome!” *Laughter*. It's like, when I listen to that, I'm kind of like, “That was not an awesome answer.” *Laughter*. It was an okay answer, but you know, sometimes you're just so enthusiastic about the process, which is great, because that'll carry you through! I've done now, I'm about to hit 70 episodes.

 

Harry:

Yeah.

 

John:

And it takes some stamina. It's been 2 years now. Over 2 years that I've been doing it, so you know, it can be a slog. You have to be really interested in the topic, you have to enjoy doing, you have to start getting feedback from people, or else it's very easy to abandon it. I think John Lee Dumas said that something like, 85% or 90% of podcasts don't make it past episode 10.

 

Harry

7.

 

John

7, Episode 7.

 

Harry:

Yeah.

 

John:

Wow. Wow. That's funny. Where are they in iTunes? Because I don't see that, maybe they just don't show up when you look at different..maybe I don't look that deep down on the rankings or something.

 

Harry:

You mean where are the podcasts that haven't made or just abandon?

 

John:

Abandoned. I rarely see that. I rarely see like, “Oh, this only has 3 episodes and it's been 2 years.” Unless I'm searching for something really obscure or by someone's name.

 

Harry:

Yeah. I mean, it does take a lot of work. Like you said, the podcasting is in new wave and a lot of people are talking about it as a great opportunity to network with people, so naturally people are jumping on board and John is helping a lot of people get on board, but you know, sometimes they end up with $2,000 worth of audio equipment sitting in the corner of the room, because they thought this is what they needed, then they realized that this is a pain in the ass. I don't want to keep doing this and they go on to the next hot topic.

 

John:

Yeah, my investment has not changed. I still have my $45 audio Technica ATR 2100, there you go. You got one as well. And then, $20 for Ecamm Call Recorder in Skype, and then my highest expense is that I have a VA that does the post-production, which honestly without that I probably would have given up, because that's a slog for me in getting through that. So, that's my highest expense.

 

Harry:

Yeah, and that's all you need. The quality of the equipment is not going to make your podcast sound any better, it's not going to make your interviews go any smoother, it's going to make sure you get the best guests, as long as, like you said, the $50 mic and a desire to communicate with your audience. That's really want you need just to get started.

 

John:

I have to say that I've been getting more and more envious of the hanging mic thing that people have, you know?

 

Harry:

Yes. The boom.

 

John:

The boom mic thing. Yeah, those look pretty cool. They look pretty sweet. Maybe at some point I'll treat myself. I bet that they're not that expensive. They're probably..

 

Harry:

No. I have one in my home office, I think they're $80 – $90 something like that.

 

John:

Oh, that's super expensive, forget it. Forget it. *Laughter*.

 

Harry:

*Laughter*. Well you can put the word out to Highel, if they want to send you a nice gift because they love your podcast.

 

John:

There's another thing. Yeah, actually I have some friends who are podcasters who've been savvy about that who will approach sponsors about certain products for them to, “Try” out and then they send in the product and they use it for a while and then eventually whoever makes it just says, “Ah, just keep it,” which sounds pretty cool.

 

Harry:

Yeah, you gotta put the attention out there.

 

John:

Ikea has a nice couch. That'll be pretty cool. *Laughter*.

 

Harry:

*Laughter*. So, you've mentioned something, I want to come back, something you said about developing a habit of networking. I know you're a big fan of some of the tools. You mention Contactually. Is there anything else you do either from a routine or from tools that are from your go-to tool kit that help you keep this habit going?

 

John:

You know, honestly there's things like email, there's things like phone, there's things like just text messaging people, things like you know, Twitter. I create a private Twitter list of people that I'm in interested in deepening my relationship with, so I look through what they're talking about very quickly, sort it out from other lists, the people I really want to deepen the relationships with. I have tutorials on my site also for how to set up your own blog. There are going to be people listening to this who don't have their own blog. Well, let me explain how a blog can be tremendously helpful. I mean, there's actually, so the best example to this is the great book by..

 

Harry:

Adam Grant?

 

John:

Oh, Give and Take is a tremendous book. Hold I got..Let me grab it I got. This is great audio, isn't it? I'm going to grab the book hold on.

 

Harry:

*Laughter*. Just give him a second. Head on over to his bookshelf.

 

John:

Okay, alright. You're going to have to shorten that or cut that out.

 

Harry:

Nah, I tend to leave all that stuff in. Makes it sound a bit more real.

 

John:

*Laughter*. I think we just lost everyone.

 

Harry:

*Laughter*.

 

John:

Chip and Dan Heath, Made to Stick. In that book, they profiled this local editor of a newspaper, who has this policy or motto, mantra, whatever you call it, that he calls, “Names, names, names.” So, it's just a local newspaper and he says to all his reporters who want to put as many names of the local people in our paper as possible. Pictures, names, all that kind of stuff. Why? Because people love to see their names in there.

 

Harry:

Yeah.

 

John:

And it sells newspaper and you can apply that same approach to your blog in your industry. Say your industry is, whatever, you want to sell Etsy items or you're a consultant to Etsy shop owners. I just made that up. I don't know. So you want to find that. You go out and find the potential audience at large, Etsy shop owners who you want to hire you as a client, and you start writing about them in your blog.

 

It doesn't matter if your audience isn't that large, people appreciate that.  You write it up and you send an email with the link saying, “Hey, I wrote about you here.” Or you interview them and you quote them, and you put them in the article. Obviously, the larger the platform the better. So if you can be a contributor to Huffington Post or Forbes or something then do it there, but if you not, then have your own blog and write about it there. It is just the same strategy, the names list, only applied in a digital space.

 

I strongly advise people to do that. In fact, whenever I write something for Forbes, for Art of Manliness, some of the places that I write for, I always try and include other people who I know or, obviously, you want them to provide value. They have to contribute something in the article. I also know that quoting someone in a form like that is a value to that person.

 

I think often times people don't remember that. They don't recall the value to that or just even mentioning someone on a podcast. There's a number of people we mentioned on this podcast. You can do that and send them a link and they're like, “Oh!” You know, they get a little warm and fuzzy from doing that.

 

Harry:

Yeah, I've done that in the past. It definitely works.

 

John:

It does, absolutely. Right, right. So, some are some strategies that people can follow. Oh, and the other tutorial I have on my site as well is for setting up an email news letter list, which kind of goes hand and hand with starting your own blog and having an email newsletter list allows you to scale your relationships as your audience grows or just as your network grows. As you know more and more people, as you meet people, you can say, “Hey, go to my site, here's my website, go to my site, and hope on my email list so we can remain in touch.” Or better yet, you can have some kind of thing of value.

 

If you're an Etsy shop owner consultant again, you can say, “I wrote an ebook that's free. It's on my site, it's called 10 tips for Etsy Shop Owners. Go and download it.” Then they're on your email list, then you can communicate with them, and as your list goes, 100 people, 500 people, 7,000 people, 20,000 people, it's a scalable way of remaining in touch with people. It doesn't replace the one-on-one touch of connecting with someone one-on-one, but it is a way you can communicate with people who are your target demographic, who you want to build relationship with as well.

 

Harry:

It's fantastic advice and specificity with which you addressed something to put it in a real tangible experience, I think, puts it concrete in the listeners' mind about ideas and they can just substitute Etsy or for something else that they're doing.

 

John:

I hope so.

 

Harry:

Yeah, the way you walked through that whole process, just shows you like, if you think this through and you have some intention about where you're trying to go and what you can do, you just don't post it and then forget it. You know. There's a lot you can do if you're willing to put in your time to take advantage of the work that you've put in to writing it in the first place.

 

John:

Yeah, I'll throw out one other one that just came to mind, and I love doing this one, if someone you know and admire, someone maybe that's on your conversations list who you want to build a relationship with. If they are trying to work on something, they have a book coming on, they have a new business that they're launching, doing a quick review, you don't even need a blog for this strategy, you can do a quick video review, almost every laptop these days got a video camera built into it.

 

You can open the laptop, sit in front of it, hold up a book or maybe a postcard or a piece of paper, and just speak directly in the camera and say,  “So and so, who is somebody that I admire, is got this new business that they're launching, new movie coming out, new book coming out, whatever it is, and I saw it. It was good for these reasons.” You do it for two minutes, that's it, you upload it to YouTube or you put it on your blog or whatever, you send that email to that person and say, “Hey, just wanted to let you know that I was really influenced by the book that you just came out with. I really enjoyed it, so I shared this video. I hope you enjoy it.”

 

I've done that a number of different times. I did it with Chris Gilbo, I did it with Carol Roth who wrote the Entrepreneur Equation, and BAM. People can't help it when someone records a video and sends you an email and says, “Here's a link to this video that I recorded about you.” They can't help but check it out. They also get to know you a little bit better than they would than just reading a blog post where you just written about them.

 

Harry:

Yeah and it's not one of the thousands of emails that try and creep their way into the inbox to grab their attention. I mean, it sounds so simple, but people don't take the time to do it, because, “I don't want to see myself on camera, I probably sound silly, I don't like the sound of my voice, or I just don't want to take the two minutes.” It literally is just two minutes and it's so easy. I've done that recently for giving feedback to this new podcast that I heard called, “Startup.” about the guys trying to get funding. The guy from This American Life, Alex something or another, I forgot his name. I just turned on the computer, I recorded my love for the show as a video, and I was like, “Hey, I was inspired to just record this for you. I think it's awesome.” And I sent that out, we'll see how it turns out.

 

John:

Yeah, good.

 

Harry:

Nothing more passionate than that, so I know we're getting close to the top of the hour, the bottom of the hour, but when you think about the value of you placing on networking, which networker out there continues to inspire you personally?

 

John:

Well, I mean, I just interviewed Larry Benet, he's definitely is one. Jason Gaynor who is the founder of the Mastermind talks, does an amazing job. I interviewed him for my podcast, haven't published it yet. Jordan Harbinger, we talked about earlier, the founder of the Art of Charm, he's definitely very good at. Tom Morcus, who I'm in a mastermind group with, he actually does an amazing job too, he's got a boutique publishing house that he works on. You know, a lot of times it's people who aren't necessarily trying to tell the rest of the world about how to build connectors, how to build relationships, but you look at guys, even Noah Kagan, the founder of AppSumo, does a really good job of it.

 

He wasn't always Noah Kagan, famous Chief Sumo for AppSumo, not that long ago, he was slogging it through, trying to build relationships with people who were more important, and actually, I've gotten to know him. He's still doing that. He's still trying to build relationships with people who can help his business grow. It doesn't really change, it's just the audience that you're reaching out to changes. He does a really good job of it because he always leads trying to help the person that he's reaching out to. Trying to provide them with resources that don't cost anything or that are not that expensive. He does a really good job of it. My friend Susan Ryan, who's an author of How to Work a Room, does a really good job of it. I guess, I could go on and on.

 

Harry:

Well, Noah Kagan is interesting because he takes an effort. He goes out of his way when he goes on shows. He's like, “How can I make this your most popular episode ever?” He did that with James Shermco, I think recently and another one that he was on, so he goes out of his way. I'll definitely list the interview you had with him, because you dug deep into his failures in the past and how that made him the marker he is now.

 

John:

So, a couple of quick anecdotes on that. First of all, it took a long time to get that actual interview and I have a guest post on his site OkDork, which basically explains how I built a relationship with him. So you can check that out, you might want to link that in there.

 

Harry:

Yeah.

 

John:

So that. I actually tried to interview him a number of years earlier and had been unsuccessful. It wasn't until I had taken a step back and actually tried to help him. I actually quoted him or mentioned him in a couple of different articles, before I reached out to him, and then when I reached out to him, he gets a lot of interview requests. I didn't just say, “Hey, I'd like to interview you about your entire career,” which is probably pretty boring to him.

 

I said, I did a very short email, I said, “I want to interview you about failure and the importance of talking about failure,” which is something that he has written and spoken about a lot. I also said very short commitment. I said only 5-7 minutes and, here's another time, I said it was for Art of Manliness, because I was writing an article for Art of Manliness, which he knew, he knew that site, turns out his brother's a big fan of it, and so that was my primary focus.

 

On a secondary note, I did also want to record it and put it on my podcast, so often times what I'll say is, I'll say, “I would like to interview you for X,” which is some platform that is larger than my particular podcast and then I will say, “And, because I know you're busy. I know your time is valuable, to maximize the use of our time, I'll also record the interview and I'll also post it on my podcast.” So that's actually how I got a number of the bigger names on my podcast by actually interviewing them for some other purpose and then just saying, I'll also record it and put it on the podcast. Why would they object? It's additional exposure, right? It's more mileage.

 

Harry:

Yeah. The fact that you thought it through and the fact that you didn't succeed the first time, made you kind of double down, or regroup, and made you say, “How can I do this, but in a way that's of value to him.” And that's why you had success with that.

 

John:

Yeah, and then, of course, there's the follow up. Building a relationship after that. With anyone, anyone, who I've had as a guest on my podcast, I consider that as a favor to me, and so then I owe them after that, so afterwards I'll try and help them in whatever I can. Often it's in the form of introducing them to other podcasters, because I know they've got a book out or they've got a business that they're promoting that they're trying to get users for or whatever. I will introduce them to other podcasters so that they can go and get their word out. I think that's important. It's a good way to continue on a relationship.

 

Harry:

Yeah. Well, you've provided a ton of value and this is one of those episodes where the people are listening and if they're in their car, they're like, “Oh man. I'm going to have to play this back again, because I gotta pull up my note book, I gotta jot down all these tid bits and all these sites that John and Harry are talking about.” That's fantastic. That's a sign of a good…

 

John:

That's assuming that they didn't all tune out when I went to get the book on the other side of my office.

 

Harry:

*Laughter*.

 

John:

Hopefully we have more than 3 people listening at this point.

 

Harry:

No, the few that I've gotten, when I've keep it as real as possible and I mentioned this before, I had Elsie Escobar, she had her child with her and she starts crying, she's like “I gotta go watch my kid. Hold on one second.” I kept the majority of that in there. She replies back, it came out on mother's day, I couldn't have planned it any better, and she's like, “That episode with my daughter in there. Thank you so much. It was so nice to hear her on the show and the fact that you didn't try and completely make it as clean as possible by editing all of that stuff out.” I was like, “It's real life, man. That's what happens when you're interviewing people. It's not always perfect.”

 

John:

Yeah, that's cool. I've got a 4 year old now. I've had him talk at the beginning of one of my episodes. Episode 42 with Gary Vaynerchuk, he just said like, “Welcome to the Smart Revolution podcast.” He was younger then, so he can speak a little better now. I should actually record something. That'll probably be a good idea.

 

Harry:

The audience would love that stuff.

 

John:

*Phone Ringing*. Oh, there you go. There's real life.

 

Harry:

So yeah. Where should folks go to get the latest on what you're working on?

 

John:

Yeah, actually. So what I'll do is I've got a free ebook. It's a 52 page guide on how to build relationships particularly with influencers. It's called, “How To Grow Your Income Today By Building Relationships with Influencers Even if You Hate Networking.” It's got some of my best advice out there and I'll just go and setup a welcome page for your listeners. They can go check it out at http://smartbusinessrevolution.com/podcastjunkies/ and get a copy of that there!

 

Harry:

That's fantastic. Thanks so much for being generous with your time, John. I really enjoyed the conversation. It was as good as I thought it was going to be.

 

John:

My pleasure. Thank you, Harry.

 

Harry:

So what did I tell you? That was a chalk full of information. Hope you were jotting down stuff, but if not, never fear PodcastJunkies.com/24 for all the show notes. So I promised last episodes that I'd start reading off some of the iTunes reviews and I'm going to continue you this week.

 

So from Mr. Bobblehat – I like the easy laid back style of this podcast. It's full of great info on podcasts too. I'm just discovering the range of great podcasts that are available.

 

From Kimmy22331 – Chris Rone recommended your show Harry and I love it! :).

 

ScottQ – Well worth the time. I just finished the episode 1 with Chase Reeves and I love the easy show flow. Harry guides the conversation expertly and the result is a show packed with useful nuggets for those of us just getting into the podcasting game. I'm not a junkie though, I can stop anytime I want. (Scratches Neck)

 

Tysen Webb – Harry is the man and his podcast is amazing. Great format and tons of great content. I'm a junkie for podcast junkies.

 

Thanks Tysen. Tysen was actually a guest on the show and he's outdone podcasting and Starwars, so check that out as well.

 

From Nida Kazmi – Harry's interview style is enough to hook me into the show. He bring some amazing guests and uses his finesse to draw great conversations. One of my favorites :).
Awh.Thanks Nida!

 

Okay guys, keep the interviews, *Laughter*. Keep the interviews. Keep the reviews coming, I really, really enjoy reading them and they bring a smile to my face and make my day! So check out the podcastjunkies.com/iTunes and you can also leave them on Stitcher at podcastjunkies.com/Stitcher.

 

Okay. I'm obviously running out of speaking in my podcast voice here, so I'll wrap this up. All the other info you need is available at podcastjunkies.com and let us know any feedback you have on the guests of the show, the format, content, all the other stuff. Alright, take care guys! Have a fantastic week.

Nicole Welch Transcript